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You're not being selfish if you are doing what you feel is best for your children.
I still think that talking with a counselor or therapist would be good. You shouldn't just listen to people on an online forum. We can all be here for each other as a place for sharing experiences and ideas and that sort of thing, but you need support in your real, offline, life. A counselor/therapist/support group can help you more than online forums can.
If your kids attend public school, the district should have resources available to you. If you have medical insurance, there should be some kind of mental health benefit. Depending on your income, there are also more resources available to you through your city, county, and state. There are also programs through universities and colleges that can help with pro-bono services. Your family doctor can also be a good person to talk to and can help point you in a good direction. You can feel safe talking to doctor's because of the strict patient/doctor privacy laws.
You might, if you haven't already, try to get a P.O. Box, and open up a bank account in only your name and start putting money away in it. Have your statements sent to your P.O. Box so your husband doesn't know about it. When you do the shopping, if you can, take out an extra $10 cash (if you pay for your groceries with the debit card) and put that into your account. Shred the grocery receipts so he can't see that you are doing that. Get a credit card only in your name and have it sent to the P.O. Box as well. Don't use it. Just keep it for emergencies, or for when you actually leave. You might not need it, but just in case. Go to the public library and establish a new email address to use for all online correspondence that relates to your leaving. Don't assume that he's not tracking what you're doing online. Use the library computers when you need to do something that relates to leaving. Chances are your home computer isn't private or safe from him.
Men can be vicious and cruel when they feel that they've lost control over their wives, or that they are simply losing their wives. I've seen it happen. Make sure you have a safety net in place, and a real group of people for support. Even though your kids are older, it's still going to be tough.
Best of luck to you. And I hope he isn't reading this!!
Awesome advice!! I agree a real life support group or help is crucial. That is why I also recommended that she talks with someone from a Woman's advocacy center or a Woman's crisis center or Domestic violence center. I have no idea what these types of places are called in England. I'm sure that someone from a local police dept. could help her find one if need be. These types of places can help her get her ducks in a row and can offer a safe place for her and her kids if need be, they can also help her in getting legal help as well.
I will go find a counselor. Perhaps hubby will come - when in the past I have suggested counseling he has told me he would rather be divorced.
I went to the library today, looking at books related to my predicament. I am definitely going through emotional and verbal abuse, its being going on so long. Trouble is I still feel sorry for him. I wish I could just stop pitying him - he is pitiful - but he isn't going to change. I need to escape for my sake and my childrens sake. Brought it up with my daughter today I said "How would you feel if I did seperate from your dad" She said she would feel happy. Last night, hubby suggested we go on a family day out - Laura didn;t want to go, I asked her about that today too, she said "There always ends up being arguements". She said her dad was a jerk. So, so sad. I could cry.
I don't think that a couple should stay together for the kids because it sets a bad example of what a marriage should be like. But, I think a couple with kids owes it to the kids to try, maybe harder than if there were no kids, to make it work. Have you tried counseling? However, If the kids can see how bad it is and even they think you should leave, maybe it is time.
I'm sorry jenna I'm totally out of it - I only now realized that you're in England. Duh! The resources I mentioned were ones that I know to be available in America - because I've used many of them. I would hope that in England there would be similar resources for women, though. Wouldn't you think? There has to be something.
My husband and I weren't always happy. The first years of our marriage were crippled with one hardship after another. He acted in some of the same ways that you are describing your husband acting. He could be a real bear, and so incredibly insensitive and awful towards me. His moods would change like a lightswitch. When he was good, he was a dream! When he was having an off day, I shook with anxiety and lived on edge and often tried to avoid him altogether. I never knew what was going to set him off. This is why I am able to understand your situation.
I left him three times within the first seven years we were together! Each time it got harder to leave. At that time, I wished I had stayed away the first time I left.... but I loved him. And I really believed that he loved me. Also, he was a good father - regardless of how he was treating me at the time. My gut told me that it was something emotional or mental within him that made him act this way... that there were triggers. Anyway - finally, the third time I left, he agreed to seek counseling with me. It was then that things began to turn around for the better. He was exhausted from my leaving, and had had enough. I feel like he just got to a point where he was ready and willing and wanting to work things out. I don't want to get too personal about all that... but I'll just say that he had a lot of anger issues and I had a lot of insecurity issues all stemming from each of our horrible childhoods and lack of proper parenting and abuse that we both suffered as young children. We knew we wanted better for our children, and we knew we wanted a good and happy life together, but we had absolutely no idea how to do that. It was incredibly frustrating!! Our fights would go around and around in circles, all night long. He was mean and cruel and I'd cry. He'd take off and I wouldn't know where he was for days. It was awful. Life was awful back then. But thanks to a really great low-income counselor (we were absolutely broke at the time) we learned how to work things out. We were so poor at the time that we qualified for the service for free - no cost to us. A teacher at my sons school at the time told me about it. It was what totally turned us around.
We've been together 14 years now, and life is so good... finally! We've been really good and happy since about 2002-2003. It took us about two years of counseling and working through things before that to get to that good place. Every year keeps getting better. One of the things we learned is that marriage is a process. It's not as if you get married and have kids and then the rest falls into place naturally. No, no, no... It's constant work, and requires a lot of compassion and understanding. We were also reading each other wrong, and so responding to each other in ways that confused one another. Body language is a HUGE factor in relationships. A lot of times what a person says with the mouth contradicts what their body is saying. There were just lots of things we needed help understanding, really!
Anyway... my heart hopes that you would/will be able to get your husband into counseling with you so that you both can work things out. I believe in families. It would be a great lesson for you children - especially your daughter - to show how two people can work together to turn a relationship around for the better. I know it can be done! My husband went from grizzly bear to Paddington bear! And I went from doormat, to... hmmm... confidant wife and mama who isn't afraid of upsetting her husband anymore? I found the guy I fell in love with and married in the first place! But I understand your desire to leave - I've been there, too. And honestly it was my leaving that shocked my husband into realizing there really were issues there that needed to be dealt with. Before, I don't think he took me seriously. It was that whole "talking to a brick wall" thing. When I left, it broke down the wall. I don't think he really thought that his behavior was unacceptable, until I left him over it. Denial can run so deep. Anyway - I wish you and your kids the best of luck. It's hard and tricky stuff you're facing, but you'll get through it. Best of luck to you.
No you should not stay married for the sake of the kids. Do you really think it is good for them to watch you sceam and yell at each other? It just puts them in the middle and they are left to take sides.
And this is one of the many reasons I think christianity is a crock of you know what. A woman has to stay with an abusive man, and it's ok for him to ruin his kids. Give me a break.
It does sound like he is depressed, but that doesn't give him the right to treat people like crap, especially his wife and children. I would have been gone long ago. Actually, that's exactly what I did, I packed up our stuff in my car and drove off without ever looking back. And he is still a mean piece of crap, but at least I don't have to deal with the put downs, mental abuse, nor worry about what it will do to my sons' behavior.
"And this is one of the many reasons I think christianity is a crock of you know what. A woman has to stay with an abusive man, and it's ok for him to ruin his kids. Give me a break."
I don't think that Christianity, in general, condones this at all.
I'm sorry jenna I'm totally out of it - I only now realized that you're in England. Duh! The resources I mentioned were ones that I know to be available in America - because I've used many of them. I would hope that in England there would be similar resources for women, though. Wouldn't you think? There has to be something.
My husband and I weren't always happy. The first years of our marriage were crippled with one hardship after another. He acted in some of the same ways that you are describing your husband acting. He could be a real bear, and so incredibly insensitive and awful towards me. His moods would change like a lightswitch. When he was good, he was a dream! When he was having an off day, I shook with anxiety and lived on edge and often tried to avoid him altogether. I never knew what was going to set him off. This is why I am able to understand your situation.
I left him three times within the first seven years we were together! Each time it got harder to leave. At that time, I wished I had stayed away the first time I left.... but I loved him. And I really believed that he loved me. Also, he was a good father - regardless of how he was treating me at the time. My gut told me that it was something emotional or mental within him that made him act this way... that there were triggers. Anyway - finally, the third time I left, he agreed to seek counseling with me. It was then that things began to turn around for the better. He was exhausted from my leaving, and had had enough. I feel like he just got to a point where he was ready and willing and wanting to work things out. I don't want to get too personal about all that... but I'll just say that he had a lot of anger issues and I had a lot of insecurity issues all stemming from each of our horrible childhoods and lack of proper parenting and abuse that we both suffered as young children. We knew we wanted better for our children, and we knew we wanted a good and happy life together, but we had absolutely no idea how to do that. It was incredibly frustrating!! Our fights would go around and around in circles, all night long. He was mean and cruel and I'd cry. He'd take off and I wouldn't know where he was for days. It was awful. Life was awful back then. But thanks to a really great low-income counselor (we were absolutely broke at the time) we learned how to work things out. We were so poor at the time that we qualified for the service for free - no cost to us. A teacher at my sons school at the time told me about it. It was what totally turned us around.
We've been together 14 years now, and life is so good... finally! We've been really good and happy since about 2002-2003. It took us about two years of counseling and working through things before that to get to that good place. Every year keeps getting better. One of the things we learned is that marriage is a process. It's not as if you get married and have kids and then the rest falls into place naturally. No, no, no... It's constant work, and requires a lot of compassion and understanding. We were also reading each other wrong, and so responding to each other in ways that confused one another. Body language is a HUGE factor in relationships. A lot of times what a person says with the mouth contradicts what their body is saying. There were just lots of things we needed help understanding, really!
Anyway... my heart hopes that you would/will be able to get your husband into counseling with you so that you both can work things out. I believe in families. It would be a great lesson for you children - especially your daughter - to show how two people can work together to turn a relationship around for the better. I know it can be done! My husband went from grizzly bear to Paddington bear! And I went from doormat, to... hmmm... confidant wife and mama who isn't afraid of upsetting her husband anymore? I found the guy I fell in love with and married in the first place! But I understand your desire to leave - I've been there, too. And honestly it was my leaving that shocked my husband into realizing there really were issues there that needed to be dealt with. Before, I don't think he took me seriously. It was that whole "talking to a brick wall" thing. When I left, it broke down the wall. I don't think he really thought that his behavior was unacceptable, until I left him over it. Denial can run so deep. Anyway - I wish you and your kids the best of luck. It's hard and tricky stuff you're facing, but you'll get through it. Best of luck to you.
it is good to know that things work out for some people..although, I would guess this is the exception rather than the rule. I often wonder about the possibility of my situation, which is very similar, ever changing for the better. I think the person has to want to change and like you said, it may take a huge wake-up call for that to happen. My husband is very similar in the dr. jekyl and mr. hyde type of way that you described...one day he is absolutely wonderful and a great husband and father and the next day, without any apparent reason, he is just awful (although not generally to the kids, just to me). And the going around in circles fighting all night long...that I am all too familiar with, sadly. Anyway, I wanted to thank you for your encouraging words...maybe there is hope ?
There's always hope! Sometimes that's about all we have.
And as for the comment regarding Christianity being a "crock of you know what"... I'm not a Christian, but I don't believe that at all. Some people need their faith - in whatever they choose to put their faith in - to help them through hard times. Sometimes having faith in something intangible helps people get through times when their reality feels too overwhelming or impossible to bear. I'd rather someone have religion to turn to for escape or as a crutch to get through life rather than overindulgence in drugs or alcohol or promiscuous sex and so on...
I don't believe that a true Christian would want a woman to stay in an abusive marriage, especially if the children were being subject to the abuse as well (either directly or indirectly). That's ridiculous. You cannot take every word in the bible so literally, Christians certainly don't.
I haven't the time to read all the posts so this may have already been said but I say
Your kids will never respect you for staying in an abusive marriage and you won't respect yourself and your kids will feel they were never important enough for you to take a stand for them when he is berating them. my mother stayed in a miserasble marriage for over 30 years and both my brother and I only felt we did not measure up in the eyes of either parent-our father for being so cold and such a tyrant and our mother for being an enabler and not having the courage to put us first. lucky for her he died realtively young-58- and she had some really good years as a single woman with friends and freedom-something she was never able to have as a married woman. In other words she had a second chance at a good life and she enjoyed it. I was happy for her. She also lived long enough to express her apologies for letting him run rough shod over all of us and actually said she never knew the kids were in pain because she was in so much pain herself.
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The resources I mentioned were ones that I know to be available in America - because I've used many of them. I would hope that in England there would be similar resources for women, though. Wouldn't you think? There has to be something.
I found the guy I fell in love with and married in the first place! 
