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I don't understand peoples' reaction to this post...? why are the claws coming out?
Because we have done this dance in the parenting forum before. It gets old quickly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edison Winter
Discussion is why I posted it in the parenting section, as that is what the topic is about, Parenting.
Only a non-parent will think parenting is about the decision to be a parent. Parenting is about the daily care and nurture of children. To me a parenting forum is a place to discuss the joys and challenges of parenting. Not a place to be insulted because of my choice to have children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edison Winter
The point is discussion....thats all. What is the point of any topic in the parenting discussion or any section of City Data? Discussion, interaction, opinions, ideas, experiences....all discussion related.
Yeah as it regards to caring for the children we already have. We can discuss teething, potty training, allowances, etc. anytime you are up for it.
For debates CD has separate forum.
I sense a lot of bitterness coming off of some of you and that wasnt my "agenda" for starting this topic, it was to discuss the problems that arise when people decide to have kids with only there own selfish reasoning in mind.
That being said, do any of you fall into any the categories I listed?
Some bottom of the barrel types have kids because welfare gives them more money
Some people have kids in hopes of "saving" there relationship
Some looneys have kids because they want attention
Some people have kids because they simply have a void in there life and want something to do
Some people have kids for there own status in society, its like there trophy piece
Some people dont even plan to have kids, its an unwanted accident
A female who doesnt take her birth control pill on purpose, in hopes of forever being connected to the man shes with
I think it is a good idea to post this in the debate section as well. I thought this was the appropriate category and was hoping some of you would join in with some discussion and experiences of your own. I thank the few of you who did, hopefully I am able to get a more non defensive discussion in another part of the board.
i sense a lot of bitterness coming off of some of you and that wasnt my "agenda" for starting this topic, it was to discuss the problems that arise when people decide to have kids with only there own selfish reasoning in mind.
That being said, do any of you fall into any the categories i listed?
Some bottom of the barrel types have kids because welfare gives them more money
some people have kids in hopes of "saving" there relationship
some looneys have kids because they want attention
some people have kids because they simply have a void in there life and want something to do
some people have kids for there own status in society, its like there trophy piece
some people dont even plan to have kids, its an unwanted accident
a female who doesnt take her birth control pill on purpose, in hopes of forever being connected to the man shes with
i think it is a good idea to post this in the debate section as well. I thought this was the appropriate category and was hoping some of you would join in with some discussion and experiences of your own. I thank the few of you who did, hopefully i am able to get a more non defensive discussion in another part of the board.
you do not need to apologize, your thread has a place here.
One of the most important factors, historically, are societies norms.
People will often have children because that is what you do. You grow up, go to school, get married and have children. Then they have a mid-life crisis because this is not what they chose at all. They wake up and they say, "Hey! I didn't want this!"
So, why do many opt for that? Ostracization. That is why people do a good portion of what they do. That is how we punish others that don't comply.
Generations are another factor. Do you realize that it was not until the 15th century before children were actually considered children? They were considered miniature adults and were treated as such. It took a French Priest to introduce this concept. He began to push, heavily, for children to be placed in separate beds. Squishing and suffocating was not the problem but child molestation was. During that time era, the entire family slept in one bed unless you belonged to the high and mighty class. We still have that argument going on today but that is where it was initially created.
People that were raised in the 1930's have a tendency to come from really large families. Even though by the 1900's the life expectancy rate had risen dramatically, people continued to have many children because in the years prior many children died quite young. Further, families could be compared to the fuedal system. Children were expected to aid in bringing the wealth into the family. There was no birth control and abortions were what we call back ally. There was no concept of child abuse. If your mother or father beat the hell out of you, there was no recourse. Child molestation, rapes, etc. are still occuring but they are not discussed. They are not, by and large, being prosecuted. Obviously, violence, specifically child abuse and domestic violence, is cyclical. I have heard from more than one person regarding love and marriage, "Love? What does love have to do with it? This is what you do." Your looking at power and survival here. Huge issues.
After WWII, when there was more buying power, we have the entrance of what we call the Kodak Kid. Why? Because they then become someone to buy for. Now, children are being viewed in the light that we do now.However, there is a section of society where they are "status". One of the most common complaints from many women that were born in the 50's and some of the 60's is this lack of closeness between parents and children. A large portion of mothers did not breastfeed because it was considered "sinful". For many families, it was less about relationship and more about presentation. Just because, children became children for a selling ploy does not mean that everybody "gets it".
Further, we still have children that are born out of wedlock and are put up for adoption while the young mother is hidden away from society. We still have sex, drugs and rock and roll. We have "Mother's Little Helper" because presentation is exhausting. the concept of falling in love with your partner is presented but not discussed. We have all of the same things present in our society during that time that we do now. Mental illness is still not discussed. It is very much present. Abuse is very much present. It is cyclical. Notice how the roles are still very much defined during this time period, when possible. The
By the time these children have children, we have a full blown concept of children as children. However, the parents are experiencing a change as well. We have this clash or struggle between women as free agents versus societies norms dictated to now and what role does this father play. Abuse continues, mental illness contineus, unwed children are still born but by and large people do as societies norms push and pull. Yet, to a large extent they are still impacted by "presentation" because ....its cyclical. A vast majority of this group not only struggles with how they were raised, but examines it, and tries to come to terms with it and will say so. This is the group that knows they are setting the tone and they re-evaluate themselves on a constant basis because they forced everyone else to consider.........cyclical. At the same time, they dance between what roles they play and thus teach children. They say, "Hey! This whole falling in love crap is mythical. Lets try to figure out if we are supposed to not be in love 24/7. They re-evaluate...vocally. Therefore, there is a change in relationships between parents and children.
This group begins to prosecute child abuse and child molestation. Mental illness still carries that stigma but it is beginning to be talked about openly. Fathers can no longer abandon families. We have Supermom versus exhaustion. We begin to demand for the Kodak Kid. Not everyone "gets it" at the same time. Its cyclical.
My generation still tangos with, what roles do we have as parents in the family? What roles do our children have? Men all of a sudden said, I'd like to take a more active role as a parent. I want to spend more time with the little buckaroos. The old role of "father as breadmaker and distant other person" is gone. As adults we realize that the emotional love lust thing is temporary. It just took a minute. Cause it's cyclical. We still have abuse and molestation but we talk about it and we prosecute it. We have the stigma of mental illness but we talk about it. We have children and we look at the world and say, "What kind of world did I bring you into?" Some of us have relationships with our parents and family that would have been non-existant 40 years ago. We struggle with societies norms because we are stretching them and we become defiant in our stance. We have had drummed into us, responsibility.
What I have not mentioned are the roles of education, poverty and religion.
Now, did I have my son for selfish reasons? Yeah, but not for the ones you listed. When I looked in my son's eyes and knew that he couldn't see me and he was in this incubator thing, it was frigging cosmic. I'm even more selfish than that........he's MINE. I intend to indoctrinate him with my beliefs forbid him to join the military and force him to visit museums and love history. Hell, as it stands now he also loves sci-fi and broccoli. That's my doing. I'm not even close to being done with selfish.
I can't think of one single non-selfish reasons for having kids. ANNNNNNNNNND?
This is true. End of story. This thread has no purpose.
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