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au contraire- Michael is a very happy and loving person. And he has found a special woman who he has spent 8 years with.
When I sent the north pole video it spured a conversation -via emails- about how betrayed he felt when he found out we lied. I would not say he is angry now really- just he and his peers are having this same conversations about santa. We converse openly about alot of things and I'm glad he can relate his feelings. And most of this comes from his love of science and pure facts. This being said, I know he will not tell his sisters the "truth" and he will probably let his young children-when and if he has them- believe in some fantasy.
I just had a thought- this is the kid who at 21 spent countless hours on everquest and got po'd when I told him he should spend more time in the real world. he finally broke free of that addiction . I might remind him of this next time we talk.
Anyway- like most parents I can say all I want to about him but will defend him if anybody else says something nasty about him. My main question was if anybody else had encounterted adult children who resented being lied to. I see in the thread abou the aunt ruining santa that he is certainly not alone. And that is all I wanted to know.
Michael's exact e mail to me when we started taking about the myth of Santa:
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You know, I'm just now, at 28, starting to change my mind about the Santa tradition. I'm one of the very rare examples of children that got upset that I was misled, and I've been holding a grudge for all this time. The vast majority of children feel no anger at being lied to.
I think there is a good argument to be made that the Claus tradition is a good example of how children can learn that they may be deliberately misled by their elders and could help teach them to be cautious about accepting any other superstition or unsubstantiated belief.
I think you could make the argument too that there is no harm in the belief in Santa Claus, since it is a cultural, not parental, lie; thus, it does not undermine 'parental trust'.
Perhaps it taught me a valuable lesson and primed me to be a staunch rationalist when it came to looking at deities and pseudo-science.
Thanks? I think...
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Doesn't sound like a hate filled, immature, manipulative young man to me---but I'm his mother so I could be biased.
he is convinced telling kids the lie about Santa is child cruelty and only leads kids to eventually not trust adult as they will lie.
Is vastly different than this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu
I think there is a good argument to be made that the Claus tradition is a good example of how children can learn that they may be deliberately misled by their elders and could help teach them to be cautious about accepting any other superstition or unsubstantiated belief. I think you could make the argument too that there is no harm in the belief in Santa Claus, since it is a cultural, not parental, lie; thus, it does not undermine 'parental trust'.
He sounds just fine to me - he's obviously a deep thinker and realist. As the daughter-in-law myself of a physics professor who also lectures and has authored over a dozen books, I can totally relate to the scientific mind ... even though I don't understand it. My father-in-law however took great delight in the joy of Santa Claus and actually, still does. I just saw him two days ago and he asked if Santa was bringing me coal this year ... lol.
I think everyone is different in their level of belief/non-belief and allowing yourself the flexibility to continue learning and changing your opinions is a sign of maturity and enlightenment - a good thing. Your original post came across much differently than the reality of your son's thoughts, which as maciesmom said is why you got some of the replies that you did.
so much can be lost in translation from phone calls and e mails. In previous years Michael had much stronger beliefs about perpetuating the myth. Still I find it interesting that my original post incited folks to label him as immature, unhappy, manipulative and that I was full of guilt. Where did that come from?
Obviously he is mellowing out and that is a good thing.
Well, looking back at your OP....the interpretation I got was that he was a grown, 28 y.o. man who was STILL ANGRY over being LIED to about Santa. He couldn't even find the humor in a cute video you sent him and felt the need to rehash the cruely he felt you participated in. To me 28 is plenty old to be past that and indeed made me wonder what was really going on. I will say I was surprised to hear that of one of your kids because that is not at all the impression I had of someone coming from your family. Glad to hear that was not the case.
Well, looking back at your OP....the interpretation I got was that he was a grown, 28 y.o. man who was STILL ANGRY over being LIED to about Santa. He couldn't even find the humor in a cute video you sent him and felt the need to rehash the cruely he felt you participated in.
Yes - what she said. As I pointed out in my last post, your initial post came across much, much differently than the reality of the conversation that you and he had. I think the posters here did the same thing that you did - read something differently in the words that were presented to you. Clarifying his words makes all the difference in the world.
actually the two of us have had great fun with the santa videos. I sent him 2 in the child category but still with his correct age. one said he was good for eating his vegetables (he's vegan) but needed to work on peeing in the shower- apparently alot of folks do that!!!
one in the naughty adult category which has a bald category-poor thing -he's been losing his hair since he was 19- saying he spent too much time watching hockey-could care less about sports. one said he wanted a job in a swiss patent office- how A. Einstein started out-his hero natch. Michael commented on how fickle santa was this time of year.
he sent one to a friend going thru a nasty divorce and pt down in gift category"next time a prenup", a friend who is sweating a green card and several friends looking for jobs but are "overqualified".
Whoever did this video -it is great and yes I would pay to do it but please don't start charging!!
I've sent them to teachers, employees, old friends I haven't seen in years and all sorts of people.
Tell your son to do some research on St. Nicholas, the real Santa Claus. Tell him in essence you weren't lieing to him because at one time Santa was real. St. Nicholas was a kind and generous person who helped those in need. His kindness and generousity inspired others to follow in his footsteps long after he died and even expanding on his goodwill. St. Nicholas asked for nothing in return for his good deeds except for those that he helped be happy. In general the American version of St. Nicholas now known as Santa Claus models him at least that is how he started out but with one exception. The American Santa was also useful in helping parents raise their unruly children in a time when things were getting way out of hand. Since then the commercial industry has been using him to promote their wares. Coca Cola was one of the first to do this and other companies followed suit so Santa has been loosing his luster in what he is truley all about.
Here is an interesting site that talks about the evelution of St. Nicholas to the American Santa as well as more info. about St. Nicholas.
I will point it out yet again, most historians now agree that the "real" St. Nicholas was also made up. First off, the date of his death is debated so that is a red flag. Second, St. Nicholas Day is Dec 5th, the same date of a pagan holiday celebrating their god Hold Nikar. It was ALL made up, a big fat lie. I think it is sad that people in power at the time went so far as to lie to adults. I don't see any point in lieing to my kids about santa. For one, I never believed in santa, ever. I remember when I was 2 years old my mom sewed me a doll blanket thinking I would be too young too remember. For the longest time I thought I was 4 at the time but my baby brother wasn't there that Christmas and my mother was not pregnant either (not sewing over a round belly) so I had to be 2 years old. Anyway, "santa" gave it to me so I knew the truth. My sister was too young to remember and I will tell you exactly what difference that made.
I watched my mother working on that blanket and I realized just how hard she worked to give us presents for Christmas. I knew where they came from and I was ever appreciative for each one. My sister thought santa gave her her gifts. So she she asked "santa" for a boy doll just like the one I had got the year before but she got one that was different. She threw it on the floor and threw a fit, crying uncontrollably because she was convinced she didn't get exactly what she asked for because she had been a bad girl. My mom cried and thought she was a horrible mother because she couldn't find the same doll. I was astounded that my parents allowed her behavior...in order to keep up the lie... and it was then, when I was four years old, that I decided I would never lie to my kids about santa and that I wanted my kids to someday appreciate the hard work it took for their parents to get them the things that they did. It makes them appreciate them more. Not only that, instead of wasting years of trying to cover the lie with more and more lies or punishing them for reaching the age of reasoning with threats that they won't get presents if they don't believe...which is the point where psychologists agree that you are psycologically harming your kids...we can spend all the time trading pretend traditions for real ones. When they learn the truth, regardless of age, don't continue to keep it up. It is as simple as that.
There is a movement, there are many many parents now that are stopping the lie. Those who stop are not just non-christian either. There are many christians that are also dropping it. Its a growing movement. Most people just choose not to tell other people that they do not lie to their kids because they don't know if they will get someone tolerant or a crazy person attacking them about how they are destroying their childrens lives.
I have to say I can see both sides but I don't see much harm in letting little kids believe for just a bit. having said that my 7 year olds began questioning me about the real santa and I tried "If you believe he is real, then he is" Then I found the video and thought it would be fun. When one girl saw it her mouth dropped open and she began dancing around and singing SANTA IS REAL HE REALLY IS" so what was I supposed to do?
If they ask again I will tell them the truth.
We are getting a Wii and very little else and parents definitely get the credit for that. puzzles, coloring books and clothes -which they saw me buy- are the rest. Santa is bringing a puzzle each, chapter books and a box of sidewalk crayons.
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My father-in-law however took great delight in the joy of Santa Claus and actually, still does. I just saw him two days ago and he asked if Santa was bringing me coal this year ... lol.
