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View Poll Results: Breast feeding, my doctor told me my child would not get sick as often. Is this true for you?
I breast feed. 59 60.82%
My child is rarely sick. 53 54.64%
My child gets sick often. 2 2.06%
I bottle fed. 18 18.56%
My child is rarely sick. 16 16.49%
My child gets sick often. 3 3.09%
I bottle and breast fed. 18 18.56%
My child is rarely sick. 15 15.46%
My child is often sick. 2 2.06%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-04-2007, 11:27 AM
 
743 posts, read 2,039,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerislesmile View Post
I think you've answered your own question- because they know it might be a big challenge.
And do you really think having a can of formula in your cabinet is what women who are intently trying to bf really need??

For centuries, women helped new moms w/ bf. Now, moms turn to doctors for help and advice. I still don't understand even after the AMA endorsed bf for 6 mo, why formula packets are routinely handed out to bf moms.

Having doctors hand out free formula to new bf moms gives mixed message in two ways 1) I know you're trying to bf....but, just in case you can't, here's some formula, and 2) it's just as good as breastmilk (which simply isn't true). I
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Old 06-04-2007, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Penobscot Bay, the best place in Maine!
1,891 posts, read 5,149,899 times
Reputation: 2627
Quote:
I still don't understand even after the AMA endorsed bf for 6 mo, why formula packets are routinely handed out to bf moms.
The bag is very useful to those moms who have chosen to formula feed. As I have already stated upthread, I don't believe in forcing new mothers to bf or making them feel guilty because they dont, and if they are already decided on formula feeding, the bag is a nice thing.
Not even one of those new moms is forced to take the sample bag, though.
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Old 06-04-2007, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Between Here and There
3,684 posts, read 10,844,526 times
Reputation: 1650
Quote:
Originally Posted by beth ann View Post
And do you really think having a can of formula in your cabinet is what women who are intently trying to bf really need??

For centuries, women helped new moms w/ bf. Now, moms turn to doctors for help and advice. I still don't understand even after the AMA endorsed bf for 6 mo, why formula packets are routinely handed out to bf moms.

Having doctors hand out free formula to new bf moms gives mixed message in two ways 1) I know you're trying to bf....but, just in case you can't, here's some formula, and 2) it's just as good as breastmilk (which simply isn't true). I
They have the option of the breastfeeding bag or the bottle feeding bag...and no one is forced to take either. Again I think if a woman is committed to breastfeeding a can of formula isn't going to make any difference, if it does then I would question the initial comittment of that particular mom not the can of formula.
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Old 06-04-2007, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 5,957,184 times
Reputation: 2620
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmom View Post
They have the option of the breastfeeding bag or the bottle feeding bag...and no one is forced to take either. Again I think if a woman is committed to breastfeeding a can of formula isn't going to make any difference, if it does then I would question the initial comittment of that particular mom not the can of formula.
I have provided the abstracts to multiple studies which have shown this to be untrue. Yet you keep on saying you don't believe it, just based on what? Your opinion? Why am I the only one using science and evidence to back up my statements instead of just my opinion? You have not even challenged the information that I presented to you. Are you just choosing to ignore it?

PS - Many hospitals do not offer a breastfeeding bag and a formula feeding bag where the mom chooses which one to take. My hospital gave me the only bag that they use, which had formula in it. I even used it as a bag to hold my breastpump for a time, which I thought was ironic since it said Similac all over it. I knew at the time that having formula in the house was shown to be detrimental to breastfeeding success, so I donated the formula to the food bank.

PPS - You said you are a lactation consultant. Are you an IBCLC? Or some other type? CLE? CLC? Other?
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Old 06-04-2007, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Penobscot Bay, the best place in Maine!
1,891 posts, read 5,149,899 times
Reputation: 2627
Okay, so eliminate the bags being given by the OB department. I would agree with that, as I don't like any healthcare professionals to endorse certain brands of merchandise, and in addition to the formula, there are samples of diaper cremes and nursing pads that are not better than other brands of the same product. Those that dissaprove of the bags should be working with their area hospital staff in order to cease the practice.

I think that most people will agree with you that breastmilk is the better choice, but you seem unwilling to concede that it may not be the only choice. Not only that, but it seems that you are unable to offer any solutions other than to read the clinical data pertinent to breastfeeding. I had asked previously for you to tell me what you think would be the way that new moms should be educated, and at what point you would back off and respect their decision to not breastfeed. Although it's obvious that we don't agree on many points about the breast vs. bottle issue, I am genuinely interested in how people think the educational piece should be implemented, and at what point we allow the new mom to relax about whatever decision she has made, without making her feel guilty or that she has to justify to strangers why she made the decision that she did. Should pregnant moms be required to meet with a LC during pregnancy and after birth, if she is interested in BF or not? Should healthcare professionals not educate the mums on their options (ie- how to bottlefeed) in the hopes that they will be forced to breastfeed? Should WIC not give out formula to limited income mothers? What do you think an optimal scenario for the education would be?
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Old 06-04-2007, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 5,957,184 times
Reputation: 2620
Quote:
Originally Posted by deerislesmile View Post
Those that dissaprove of the bags should be working with their area hospital staff in order to cease the practice.
There are many groups across the country who are doing just this. It's really a big issue for a lot of people. They almost passed a law banning the practice in, um, I think Massachusetts.

Quote:
I think that most people will agree with you that breastmilk is the better choice, but you seem unwilling to concede that it may not be the only choice.
Of course I don't think it is the only choice. You can't force someone to do it of course.

Quote:
Not only that, but it seems that you are unable to offer any solutions other than to read the clinical data pertinent to breastfeeding. I had asked previously for you to tell me what you think would be the way that new moms should be educated, and at what point you would back off and respect their decision to not breastfeed.
I thought that I had answered those questions. This board doesn't seem to number the posts, but it was the one at 06-02-2007, 10:20 PM.

Quote:
Although it's obvious that we don't agree on many points about the breast vs. bottle issue, I am genuinely interested in how people think the educational piece should be implemented, and at what point we allow the new mom to relax about whatever decision she has made, without making her feel guilty or that she has to justify to strangers why she made the decision that she did.
Whoa, I don't think anyone should be made to feel guilty or justify anything at all to strangers. My problem in this scenario is with the healthcare professionals, not with the moms, which I think I've said several times by now.

Quote:
Should pregnant moms be required to meet with a LC during pregnancy and after birth, if she is interested in BF or not? Should healthcare professionals not educate the mums on their options (ie- how to bottlefeed) in the hopes that they will be forced to breastfeed?
I think that education about BF should occur during regular pre-natal visits. I also think it should occur if the mom requests formula in the hospital. Maybe that she has to sign some kind of waiver stating that she understands the risks associated with not BF. I don't think that instruction about bottle-feeding is necessarily inappropriate, but I think that it should be secondary to instruction about breastfeeding. Have you seen the infant feeding and nutrition seminars, sponsored by Similac, that don't even mention breastfeeding? I don't want to see that. Basically, I guess I think that the BF instruction should be the primary default, and the FF instruction can be upon request or as needed. I think that this kind of presentation by the doctor shows that BF is the medically preferred method of feeding a baby, rather than simply one of several options.

I think that OB and pediatric docs and staff should increase their education level about BF because I think it is seriously lacking. I can show you some studies (do you really want me to post more studies? ) which show how these docs are even very misinformed about quite basic principles of BF and are likely to push formula supplementation at times when it is not only unnecessary, but counter-productive for a mom who wishes to continue BF. Many BF moms worry a lot about weight gain, especially in the beginning, and docs are using weight charts that are based on mostly FF babies. They should take into account the more accurate BF baby weight charts for these babies. Since many people trust and follow the advice of their doc (ie "my doctor told me to supplement"), I want docs to be giving good advice that is pro-BF.

I want OB nurses and staff to be educated enough about BF that they can all help new moms with BF instead of having to call in the LC who only works certain days and certain hours and can't help you right away. I want them to NOT give babies formula or bottles or pacifiers unless specifically directed to do so by the parents (I have heard MANY BF moms complain that the nurses gave their baby formula in the hospital nursery against their explicit instructions, usually b/c mom was sleeping and they didn't want to wake her) and to explain to these parents if they are intending to BF that doing so could be detrimental to getting BF off to a good start. I want OB nurses to routinely allow baby to BF at birth before they go through all of the procedure of getting footprints and putting goop in their eyes and give the bath and whatever else they do after the birth.

Quote:
Should WIC not give out formula to limited income mothers?
Now this is a tougher one because public tax dollars support WIC giving out free formula. I think that moms on WIC are more likely to choose formula that moms off of WIC due to the lack of financial constraint involved in the choice, and therefore I think that WIC is somewhat guilty of promoting formula to this population. Being that the entire purpose of WIC is to promote nutrition in children, I think that this is not a great way to do it. However, I would not personally exclude formula from WIC, though I do have some problems with it. Here is an interesting article giving the position that WIC should not give free formula: International Breastfeeding Journal | Full text | WIC's promotion of infant formula in the United States
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Old 06-04-2007, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Home Limbo
160 posts, read 525,805 times
Reputation: 50
Not true- I don't like to see anyone else's boobs in public, nursing or not. I think the same people that like to see boobs in porno mags would love to see a mother breastfeeding, other than being jealous, they would probably like the show! (I am NOT saying that the mother is putting on a show, mind you, but that I'm sure some people look a little too long at a bfing mom).


LOL, that's pretty ridiculous. I see you two are in pretty heated battle, so I hope you don't really believe that. I guess you don't own a single v-neck tshirt , swimsuit or low cut dress? (or watch tv, look at billboards, read newspapers or magazines) When most people are nursing that's all you're gonna see. (the top of your bust that you've shown before in regular clothes)
The same people who look at lots of porn don't like to watch mothers feed their children One of my friend's husband's watches alot of porn (I'm not supposed to know that of course) and he's uncomfortable around us at mealtime. I think those types of men have a hard time thinking breasts are for anyone else but them. That makes them squirm to think about the real purpose and just how dirty their thoughts were before. The ones that look to long??? WOMEN!! 99% of people who look at my "show" are women who then feel the need to explain what happened when they tried to breastfeed. I've never asked or harassed anyone. Men don't pay you any attention.

As far as education, I believe there isn't enough education on the benefits of breastfeeding. Start paying attention to all the symbols you see associated with babies on things like cards gift bags and kids toys. Bottles, pacifiers, rattles etc. Do you see dollbabies come with a Mom to feed the baby? No! So we're taught from the start bottle=baby. That's why people think their babies aren't getting enough when they are. (according to growth charts etc.) We're used to seeing the milk magically disappear out of that little plastic bottle.
I had to do research on my own when I was pregnant and by accident ran into the La Leche League website and ended up at a meeting. My doctor didn't put that flyer up bedside the enfamil one. If it was not for those women there was no way I could have withstood the constant formula pressure. My baby had trouble latching on at the hospital, and I was threatened with the bottle before I was referred to the lactation consulatant down the hall! The pressure is so subtle that if you're not adamant about breastfeeding you wouldn't notice. Lower income people who get WIC are especially succeptible. You can get free formula and food, but where's the breastfeeding incentive? Do they give out free pumps?...I'm sure a fraction of the cost of months of formla. There aren't many role models in your communities, and who wants to be the oddball? Especially if you're not educated about why it's better.
I took the bag, because there was some other good stuff in there like ice packs and lansinoh. But, I was bombarded by the "are you ready to supplement?" flyer every month, which could be tempting to a Mom having problems that could be solved otherwise.
As for the guilt, would you make a mom feel guilty about not giving her baby a medication that is proven safe and has dozens of benefits before she ever tried it? I bet yes, becuase somehow we started thinking that big business knows better than our own bodies.
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Old 06-04-2007, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Home Limbo
160 posts, read 525,805 times
Reputation: 50
Oops, Adventive I hadn't read your last post while typing mine. You can hold your own, you don't need me. =)
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Old 06-04-2007, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,798 posts, read 6,029,179 times
Reputation: 2521
I breast fed my first for two months, then bottle fed. She was sick all the time.


I breast fed my second for 12 months, she never took a bottle. She was rarely sick, but hungry all the time!
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Old 06-04-2007, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Between Here and There
3,684 posts, read 10,844,526 times
Reputation: 1650
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVentive View Post
I have provided the abstracts to multiple studies which have shown this to be untrue. Yet you keep on saying you don't believe it, just based on what? Your opinion? Why am I the only one using science and evidence to back up my statements instead of just my opinion? You have not even challenged the information that I presented to you. Are you just choosing to ignore it?

PS - Many hospitals do not offer a breastfeeding bag and a formula feeding bag where the mom chooses which one to take. My hospital gave me the only bag that they use, which had formula in it. I even used it as a bag to hold my breastpump for a time, which I thought was ironic since it said Similac all over it. I knew at the time that having formula in the house was shown to be detrimental to breastfeeding success, so I donated the formula to the food bank.

PPS - You said you are a lactation consultant. Are you an IBCLC? Or some other type? CLE? CLC? Other?
I'm not ignoring what you posted but the several hospitals I work in all are very good at educating new moms on breastfeeding. They all have an option of either a bottle feeding bag or a breast feeding bag. And all new moms are then educated by the labor nurse, the postpartum nurse, the nursery staff and then the staff LC. So in my own experience the moms choose to do what they are going to do irregardless of how much information you give them. They come in with the decision already made, usually based on what their mothers or other family have done. Occasionally we are able to get one that didn't want to breastfeed to try, but that is rare and to keep them going is even more rare. Again I'm not arguing with you, I think breastfeeding is better but I will not judge or not support a woman who chooses not to do it. That is my point, Leche League nazis tend to make women feel guilty or inferior if they choose not to breast feed, and I refuse to participate in that game. I had enough run ins with people like that when my kids were infants and I will never forget how angry I was at the time. Therefore my decision is to encourage breastfeeding in new moms and to support what ever CHOICE they make in how to feed THEIR babies. That's all I'm trying to say here.
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