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Old 01-13-2010, 10:43 AM
 
5,748 posts, read 7,028,243 times
Reputation: 4361
Quote:
Originally Posted by phonelady61 View Post
Spanking is not child abuse.
Spanking may not be child abuse, but it's unlikely to be effective at curbing their bad behavior over the long haul. More likely, they'll just become more vindictive.

Like Dragonfly, I'm a big fan of Jim Fay's Love and Logic. Check it out.

 
Old 01-13-2010, 10:51 AM
 
1,452 posts, read 2,638,859 times
Reputation: 935
Thanks for the support---I will check out the Love and Logic website.

As another poster pointed out, they're close in age so can "gang up: in their attitudes.

Yes, we have sheilded them from life's harsher realities, thanks to our subastantial savings, and both my dh and I busting it with pt, contract work, creative shopping (sales, coupons, deals,etc) but this is an unfortunate time for them, they're just now entering the middle school phase, which is all about breaking away from parents, establishing their independence, and that's done by rejecting anything that represents their parents, be it clothes, values, rules, etc. But they don't have to go so far as to be downright hateful.

The system has encouraged a lot of this crap. Both kids turned in complaints aout us to CPS within the last year, all groundless, one called CPS directly, the other gripped to the school and they filed a complaint on the child's behalf. The system degrades families by encouraging the kids to "tell somebody" any time anyone "makes them uncomfortable" Well, that's a pretty broad interpretation. Schools want parents to back them and encourage respect for the school, but the school doesn't encourage the child have respect for their parents. They're literally encouraged to file a complaint for any little thing. Both cases were ruled out as completely groundless, but it did major damage to our reputation, people gossip, the less fact, the more gossip, now we're seen as the nieghborhood weirdos, on top of everything else we've been dealing with.

I told both kids (and I mean it) if they ever want to call CPS again, pack their bags first, because the next time they come to my door they will leave with them in tow. If both kids and CPS think its so awful here, come up with something better!

meanwhile, I continue to provide a decent home and all that goes with it, that's all I'm required to do, not provide all sorts of goodies on top of it then be told I don't measure up. I'd like to see what the system can provide, oh, get her correct size for her next pair of UGGS!
 
Old 01-13-2010, 11:42 AM
 
41,745 posts, read 46,377,789 times
Reputation: 27344
Don't ever let a child threats with CPS stop you from parenting.

I knew one mother who feared that because her daughter used to threaten her, and she lost complete control of her daughter as a result.

Let CPS take them. They'll be back in a few months with much more appreciation.

I'm so sorry to hear that they are treating you so badly. I wish I had suggestions. Right now, all I have is my heart felt encouragement to stay strong.
 
Old 01-13-2010, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,508 posts, read 5,267,497 times
Reputation: 3245
Why isn't your family in counseling? I know it's been recommended to you before. You have continuing issues and apparently no way to handle/address them. You think it's bad now, wait a few years. Your family needs HELP. Get off the internet and get on the phone. Since CPS has already been involved they can probably help you find the resources your family needs. Your pastor may be able to help you as well...with counseling referrals. With the mess you have in your house I don't think I'd suggest anything less than professional counseling. While your pastor or youth pastor may be able to handle general teen/parent issues you guys are way beyond that.
 
Old 01-13-2010, 12:48 PM
 
6,697 posts, read 8,700,817 times
Reputation: 5678
You are definitely doing the right thing. They are frustrated and taking it out on you. Stay strong!
 
Old 01-13-2010, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Denver area
16,924 posts, read 11,722,593 times
Reputation: 18911
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
Why isn't your family in counseling? I know it's been recommended to you before. You have continuing issues and apparently no way to handle/address them. You think it's bad now, wait a few years. Your family needs HELP. Get off the internet and get on the phone. Since CPS has already been involved they can probably help you find the resources your family needs. Your pastor may be able to help you as well...with counseling referrals. With the mess you have in your house I don't think I'd suggest anything less than professional counseling. While your pastor or youth pastor may be able to handle general teen/parent issues you guys are way beyond that.
^^agreed....
 
Old 01-13-2010, 01:03 PM
 
3,574 posts, read 4,665,142 times
Reputation: 3531
Kids need not be shielded from the exact financial state of the family. If we are poor, we say so to our kids. If we can't afford to pay for lots of activities, we say so. They know what "too expensive to buy" means. Of course they are not 12 years old yet so I do expect some teenager angst. But not the entitlement. We are not going to slave our asses to get them stuff. They have to get used to the status quo.
 
Old 01-13-2010, 01:12 PM
 
Location: So Ca
5,083 posts, read 4,822,326 times
Reputation: 3739
Quote:
Originally Posted by marylee54 View Post
Both kids became verbally abusive to me, screaming at me that me and my dh are losers, .....They called me a *****, bastard, mocked and mimicked me, taunted me, I'm disabled, walk with a cane, started pretending to walk with an impairment, said we're stronger than you so what can you do...
You can do a lot. But start by not allowing them to continue to talk like this to you and your husband. And BTW, they don't hate you, they probably hate the fact that up until now, there have been no consequences to their behavior. No kid wants to see his/her parents bullied. There's a good book titled Back in Control, probably available at the library. You may need a neighbor, relative, friend, pastor, or coach to help you with some of the exercises.
 
Old 01-13-2010, 01:34 PM
 
2,894 posts, read 4,026,112 times
Reputation: 3946
I don't see anything about love in your posts....they are all about what you've provided for them, how you've hidden from them what you do to keep them in their lifestyle, how they've been allowed such freedoms and so on.

It all seems about you and not them. Of course that doesn't mean the world revolves around them and they get whatever they want. That's not at all what I am saying.

However, they need to feel that home is the soft place to land amongst all the things going on around them. They need to understand that you love them even if they screw up. They need to understand that they will have a consequence that is logical and from the point of love, based on a choice they made, not one you made.

This is the age they truly begin to learn things in real terms instead of 'what if' terms. They should have a full understanding of what may happen before they have to make a choice.
So, did your son know and understand that his riding out of bounds is a dangerous thing from your viewpoint? Or did he only know the boundary?
Did you tell him that if he were to get hurt you wouldn't know where he was to help him and how sad that would make you? Did you tell him that if he were to be kidnapped that you would be so scared and not have any idea where to begin to look for him? Did you explain that if he was so far from home and he needed to get away from dangerous people he might not make it back home and how much that worries you?
In essence, did he feel, see and hear the concerns behind the rule and understand that if he made the choice to break the rule, that out of concern for his safety that you'd have no choice but to take away the choice by locking up the bike? Love and logic pure and simple.

Kids absolutely need to understand the concerns behind the rules we want them to abide by just as much as they need to understand the logical consequences that will follow when they break them and as much as we know they will break them. It's part of growing up and part of parenting.

Preteen and teen years do not have to go hand and hand with cold rebellion and nastiness. I've raised two to adulthood and currently have a 12 yr old. Not once have any of them ever treated me in the manner you described. Sure they've had their own version of telling me off, but they still give/gave me the respect of being the adult, the parent looking out for their best interests in the situation without being such nasty creatures.

My two oldest are 27 and 23 and have many times over thanked me for choices I made differently than their friends parents. They are very well loved, respected and appreciated young adults without having gone through the teen hell so many expect to occur. It doesn't have to be.
 
Old 01-13-2010, 03:29 PM
 
1,452 posts, read 2,638,859 times
Reputation: 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypocore View Post
I don't see anything about love in your posts....they are all about what you've provided for them, how you've hidden from them what you do to keep them in their lifestyle, how they've been allowed such freedoms and so on.

It all seems about you and not them. Of course that doesn't mean the world revolves around them and they get whatever they want. That's not at all what I am saying.

However, they need to feel that home is the soft place to land amongst all the things going on around them. They need to understand that you love them even if they screw up. They need to understand that they will have a consequence that is logical and from the point of love, based on a choice they made, not one you made.

This is the age they truly begin to learn things in real terms instead of 'what if' terms. They should have a full understanding of what may happen before they have to make a choice.
So, did your son know and understand that his riding out of bounds is a dangerous thing from your viewpoint? Or did he only know the boundary?
Did you tell him that if he were to get hurt you wouldn't know where he was to help him and how sad that would make you? Did you tell him that if he were to be kidnapped that you would be so scared and not have any idea where to begin to look for him? Did you explain that if he was so far from home and he needed to get away from dangerous people he might not make it back home and how much that worries you?
In essence, did he feel, see and hear the concerns behind the rule and understand that if he made the choice to break the rule, that out of concern for his safety that you'd have no choice but to take away the choice by locking up the bike? Love and logic pure and simple.

Kids absolutely need to understand the concerns behind the rules we want them to abide by just as much as they need to understand the logical consequences that will follow when they break them and as much as we know they will break them. It's part of growing up and part of parenting.

Preteen and teen years do not have to go hand and hand with cold rebellion and nastiness. I've raised two to adulthood and currently have a 12 yr old. Not once have any of them ever treated me in the manner you described. Sure they've had their own version of telling me off, but they still give/gave me the respect of being the adult, the parent looking out for their best interests in the situation without being such nasty creatures.

My two oldest are 27 and 23 and have many times over thanked me for choices I made differently than their friends parents. They are very well loved, respected and appreciated young adults without having gone through the teen hell so many expect to occur. It doesn't have to be.

You're making a lot of assumptions that you're running with. I don't deserve this spiteful post, its not all about me and not about them, quite the opposite, we've busted our tails to provide for them over 4 years of financial hardship, I haven't even had new clothes during that time. Sorry if you don't think I'm kissing their a$$es enough!
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