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We have college savings plans for our girls but I doubt we'll have enough to pay for their entire college tuition bills.
I'm not too worried. I recieved enough grants and scholarships to cover the cost of my tuition at a highly-ranked state school. I even received enough extra money to cover the cost of my books and some living expenses (one of my scholarships came from a local entrapreneur who would pay the students he supported cash each June for maintaining a 3.5 or better GPA).
I've told my daughters they will need to maintain high GPAs to receive the same type of scholarship offers. My oldest wants to go to medical school. I've already encouraged her to look into government-run programs where you can have your medical school loans paid off if you agree to work in an underserved area for three years. You get a generous stipend and experience and leave the program loan free.
My state doesn't offer any pre-paid tuition programs and I'm not sure I'd participate if it did. I don't want to limit my children's options. If they have the brains to get into an ivy league school, why should they feel obligated to attend a state school?
Most of the state prepaid tuition plans are gone now. If you have one you can still use it but they aren't opening new ones. They have evolved into 529 plans that every state has.
Ann Landers once had a plan for a child to have enough money saved for a car and college by the age of 18. I bought into that idea because in my mind, when a person has reached legal age, their expenses should be their own responsibility. I had seen plenty of my own high-school classmates go off to party at their parents' expense, and I wasn't having any of that.
When I got married and became a parent, I still held to that plan. Of course, none of us knows in advance which children we were going to have, and we knew that things may turn out differently. Still, our family used every bit of our income for basic expenses, with few splurges. No fancy house, car, or clothes. A couple of vacations to see far-flung family, and sports activities for the children. That was it. You want a college education, you have to work for it.
My daughter was upset with me when she was a child because I told her that paying for college would be something she was to do on her own--that she would make good grades and get a scholarship, or else she would have to work her way through. I told her that her parents were not going to pay for her to have a four-year-long party. She thought that was very unfair.
As it turned out, we never earned enough money to be able to put any aside for her college years. Also, she turned out to be a very dedicated student by nature and hard-working by habit. In high school she worried because she knew that our resources were strained, and she was afraid that she wasn't going to be able to attend. She was especially concerned about our earlier decision to have her be responsible for all her college expenses. We tried to reassure her by telling her that she had grown into someone who deserved to have her college paid for, and that we would not leave her in the lurch.
As other posters have mentioned, state university expenses are often less than daycare was when they were small, so the first year was difficult, but not impossible. She received several small scholarships which helped. Her second year was horrible, as we faced some financial challenges that caused her to have to have a grandparent sign for a private loan. We promised to pay the loan off for her if she graduated. That year, a relative helped her get a benefactor who has paid all her tuition since then. We have funded her books and living expenses, supplementing the scholarships.
Last year, our family's income was cut by 60% due to a job loss, and we had to cut her weekly allowance by a significant percentage. She got a TA position and a lab position, both unpaid, but which helped her qualify for a summer research position at the medical school where she was awarded the highest-level stipend due to her experience. She has been able to add several other scholarships and financial awards due to earning all A's since her sophomore year.
This year, she is co-authoring a textbook and teaching the related class in addition to the TA and lab positions. She was able to use her summer research as the basis for her Honor's thesis, and she gathered up a couple more scholarships. The director of the research project has offered her a position there for next year following graduation this summer as she prepares for medical school. She plans to put aside enough money to pay for her living expenses for medical school as she improves her chances for admission to a Tier 1 med school by co-publishing papers that she will present on the research project. She is guaranteed a position at the state school where she will work after graduation, but we have encouraged her to shoot for the stars. She has definitely earned a solid place among a select applicant pool.
She has begrudgingly admitted that what I originally told her as a six-year-old was true: she really did work hard and deserve to have her college paid for due to merit. Because she has had a clear goal and an understanding that it would be her effort, not ours, that got her a *** Laude degree, she has been able to manage her time and resources. Even now, she is putting away 30% of the allowance we give her in her savings account. She is replenishing her emergency fund after pre-paying her rent through graduation in August.
All this is to say to those families who are in the same position as us financially--don't dwell on your inability to pay for your child's college education. Help them develop the skills that they will need to make it on their own. They will feel a greater sense of pride and ownership over the experience, and they will be much less likely to waste their own money on frivolous expenses than if you were footing the bill with no questions asked.
For our daughter, the road to med school required that she give almost all of her attention to her studies, ever since high school. She only worked a little bit in high school, and that was when her academic load was lighter. She has attended summer school her sophomore year and takes intersession classes between semesters. Most students don't study half as much as she does, and they could easily work 20 hours or more a week, especially if their job allowed study time, and full time in the summer and semester breaks.
Talk to your children about what you and they are willing to commit and sacrifice for a college education. They may decide that it's not for them. Or they may decide to wait until after they have some life experience and more perspective on what they want to do with their lives.
I hold to my opinion that college should be the child's responsibility, and that has indeed been borne out in our experience.
When I got married and became a parent, I still held to that plan. Of course, none of us knows in advance which children we were going to have, and we knew that things may turn out differently. Still, our family used every bit of our income for basic expenses, with few splurges. No fancy house, car, or clothes. A couple of vacations to see far-flung family, and sports activities for the children. That was it. You want a college education, you have to work for it.
My daughter was upset with me when she was a child because I told her that paying for college would be something she was to do on her own--that she would make good grades and get a scholarship, or else she would have to work her way through. I told her that her parents were not going to pay for her to have a four-year-long party. She thought that was very unfair.
As it turned out, we never earned enough money to be able to put any aside for her college years. Also, she turned out to be a very dedicated student by nature and hard-working by habit. In high school she worried because she knew that our resources were strained, and she was afraid that she wasn't going to be able to attend. She was especially concerned about our earlier decision to have her be responsible for all her college expenses. We tried to reassure her by telling her that she had grown into someone who deserved to have her college paid for, and that we would not leave her in the lurch.
As other posters have mentioned, state university expenses are often less than daycare was when they were small, so the first year was difficult, but not impossible. She received several small scholarships which helped. Her second year was horrible, as we faced some financial challenges that caused her to have to have a grandparent sign for a private loan. We promised to pay the loan off for her if she graduated. That year, a relative helped her get a benefactor who has paid all her tuition since then. We have funded her books and living expenses, supplementing the scholarships.
Last year, our family's income was cut by 60% due to a job loss, and we had to cut her weekly allowance by a significant percentage. She got a TA position and a lab position, both unpaid, but which helped her qualify for a summer research position at the medical school where she was awarded the highest-level stipend due to her experience. She has been able to add several other scholarships and financial awards due to earning all A's since her sophomore year.
This year, she is co-authoring a textbook and teaching the related class in addition to the TA and lab positions. She was able to use her summer research as the basis for her Honor's thesis, and she gathered up a couple more scholarships. The director of the research project has offered her a position there for next year following graduation this summer as she prepares for medical school. She plans to put aside enough money to pay for her living expenses for medical school as she improves her chances for admission to a Tier 1 med school by co-publishing papers that she will present on the research project. She is guaranteed a position at the state school where she will work after graduation, but we have encouraged her to shoot for the stars. She has definitely earned a solid place among a select applicant pool.
She has begrudgingly admitted that what I originally told her as a six-year-old was true: she really did work hard and deserve to have her college paid for due to merit. Because she has had a clear goal and an understanding that it would be her effort, not ours, that got her a *** Laude degree, she has been able to manage her time and resources. Even now, she is putting away 30% of the allowance we give her in her savings account. She is replenishing her emergency fund after pre-paying her rent through graduation in August.
All this is to say to those families who are in the same position as us financially--don't dwell on your inability to pay for your child's college education. Help them develop the skills that they will need to make it on their own. They will feel a greater sense of pride and ownership over the experience, and they will be much less likely to waste their own money on frivolous expenses than if you were footing the bill with no questions asked.
For our daughter, the road to med school required that she give almost all of her attention to her studies, ever since high school. She only worked a little bit in high school, and that was when her academic load was lighter. She has attended summer school her sophomore year and takes intersession classes between semesters. Most students don't study half as much as she does, and they could easily work 20 hours or more a week, especially if their job allowed study time, and full time in the summer and semester breaks.
Talk to your children about what you and they are willing to commit and sacrifice for a college education. They may decide that it's not for them. Or they may decide to wait until after they have some life experience and more perspective on what they want to do with their lives.
I hold to my opinion that college should be the child's responsibility, and that has indeed been borne out in our experience.
I would never argue that a family should do without the basics just to put aside money for their kids to go to college. Some family incomes are not sufficient to allow parents to save to send kids to college or even provide some assistance. Parents who have insufficient income don't need to feel badly that they can't send their kids to school or provide financial assistance. The others ought to take a hard look at doing what they can do.
I take exception with some of the statements you make:
1. Parents shouldn't pay for a child to have a "four year long party".
I'm sure there are kids who goof off and fail to take advantage of the opportunity handed to them. My wife and I weren't among this group. We were both honor students as undergraduates, graduating magna *** laude from a state institution. We both went onto graduate school. My wife, in fact, earned three college degrees which gave her a competitive advantage applying for jobs went she went to work. College is hardly a "four year party" just because the student isn't paying the bill his or herself.
2. One can't succeed unless one gets there on one's own.
Hardly. Both my wife and I succeeded because of the help and broad support we received from our families. Not only have we been the beneficiaries of our education, but so has the country. We have served many in our respective professions and the additional tax we have paid on our increased income working in professions has helped the US Treasury immeasurably.
3. Unless your kids are willing to do it on their own, they shouldn't go to college or they should wait until they are willing to make the sacrifice to do so.
What is most likely to happen if you follow this model is the majority of kids will end up not going to college at all. The goal of college becomes more and more elusive as we get older. We have kids, spouses, and permanent jobs. Rearranging our affairs to go to college is progressively more difficult the older we become.
I'm less interested in seeing that kids adhere to some sort superior work ethic than I am in them simply attending college.
When it comes to college, I'm of the opinion that its so important that the end pretty much justifies the means.
I'm glad what you did worked for you daughter. I'm going to tell you it won't work for many kids with less ambition, less intelligence (she apparently is very gifted) and less drive. Your daughter didn't need too much of a push to succeed in life. There are plenty of kids who need more than that.
I suspect its going to get even more competitive in the future. Those people without education and job skills will suffer the most. Do we really want to leave college to chance for our kids? I know that I don't.
I would never argue that a family should do without the basics just to put aside money for their kids to go to college. Some family incomes are not sufficient to allow parents to save to send kids to college or even provide some assistance. Parents who have insufficient income don't need to feel badly that they can't send their kids to school or provide financial assistance. The others ought to take a hard look at doing what they can do.
I take exception with some of the statements you make:
1. Parents shouldn't pay for a child to have a "four year long party".
I'm sure there are kids who goof off and fail to take advantage of the opportunity handed to them. My wife and I weren't among this group. We were both honor students as undergraduates, graduating magna *** laude from a state institution. We both went onto graduate school. My wife, in fact, earned three college degrees which gave her a competitive advantage applying for jobs went she went to work. College is hardly a "four year party" just because the student isn't paying the bill his or herself.
2. One can't succeed unless one gets there on one's own.
Hardly. Both my wife and I succeeded because of the help and broad support we received from our families. Not only have we been the beneficiaries of our education, but so has the country. We have served many in our respective professions and the additional tax we have paid on our increased income working in professions has helped the US Treasury immeasurably.
3. Unless your kids are willing to do it on their own, they shouldn't go to college or they should wait until they are willing to make the sacrifice to do so.
What is most likely to happen if you follow this model is the majority of kids will end up not going to college at all. The goal of college becomes more and more elusive as we get older. We have kids, spouses, and permanent jobs. Rearranging our affairs to go to college is progressively more difficult the older we become.
I'm less interested in seeing that kids adhere to some sort superior work ethic than I am in them simply attending college.
When it comes to college, I'm of the opinion that its so important that the end pretty much justifies the means.
I'm glad what you did worked for you daughter. I'm going to tell you it won't work for many kids with less ambition, less intelligence (she apparently is very gifted) and less drive. Your daughter didn't need too much of a push to succeed in life. There are plenty of kids who need more than that.
I suspect its going to get even more competitive in the future. Those people without education and job skills will suffer the most. Do we really want to leave college to chance for our kids? I know that I don't.
I didn't mean to be unclear. Your points are well-taken. You are fortunate that your parents were able to provide for your college educations. We have most definitely done without to provide for our daughter, and we continue to do so. I have been the primary provider in the family since the beginning of the financial crisis when two of our three earners lost their jobs due to the economic crash. While we never lived beyond our means, we never earned enough to be comfortable. Our emergency fund kept us going for almost seven months, but it ran out seven months ago. Times are getting better, but we are looking forward to our daughter's graduation as a time when we may begin rebuilding for our retirement.
To clarify and respond:
Point 1. She attends a top "party school" (Princeton Review top 5) where many of her classmates are in fact partying on their parents' dime and not taking care of their educations. I didn't mean to imply that most students whose parents pay go to school to party. That was my initial outlook when I was just out of college myself and forming my opinions and attitudes that would shape my adult conduct. As I said, I didn't know who my children would be. We have another child for whom college is not a plan, at least not for quite some time. He doesn't have the goals and drive. We have paid for some college for him, with poor results two times out of three.
Point 2. I tried to find where I stated that one can't succeed unless he does it on his own. If that's what I said, it's not what I meant. I did state that we were in the process of paying for her education 100% ourselves before we were hit hard financially. We are all fortunate and thankful that a benefactor came into her life, but we would have made do without him.
It sounds as if you and your wife have used your degrees in careers that were financially rewarding to the point of making a serious contribution to the nation's treasury. I sincerely thank you. I have taken a different road, serving our country in the inner-city schools trying to make taxpayers out of those whose families have lived off the treasury for generations. It doesn't pay enough to live comfortably and send two children to college, so we have done without other necessities to make our daughter a top priority. If she had gotten into an Ivy League school, we would have moved heaven and earth to make it happen, but she would still have had to get scholarships.
Point 3. I still have strong reservations about this. In my mind, having worked with high school seniors for more than a generation, I have doubts about college being almost a default mode for high school graduates. You didn't indicate how long it's been since you were in college, but it sounds as if it was back when the majority of kids didn't go to college. I attended at a time when only 30-40% of graduates went to college and another 20-30% of young people never even graduated from high school.
I don't think that the majority of young people are cut out for college. And I know lots of adults who decide to go to school after having worked for many years. Some of them have families and others don't. I ended up not having a hard and fast rule about it. That was my main point. I turned out to be wrong about my daughter.
If you haven't had children yet, then you don't know what kind of people they will be. If you have children, then perhaps they have already decided that college is for them and everyone sees it as a basic expectation. But I wonder if you had a kid whose interests lay elsewhere if you would force them to spend four otherwise productive years of their lives going through a ritual that would be more to satisfy you than to move their own careers forward.
If you had one like my son, you would understand why it's important to keep an open mind about whether or not college is appropriate. He is certainly suffering because he has no skills or education, but after throwing away thousands on tuition for him, there is no more money, and he understands that. He does not have the maturity or self-discipline to make it in the academic world, and it runs counter to his tastes. He prefers to work with his hands. The current economy is especially hard on people like him, who cannot get insurance without a job and can't get a job that pays enough to live and pay for insurance. Despite it being against our principles, we are allowing him to stay with us until he can get on his feet financially. It causes a major drain on our resources that he does not deserve. It causes a strain because his sister resents him for depriving her of that portion of our resources that we would otherwise allot to her because she does deserve it.
I wonder how you think kids can be successful in college without a work ethic. In my experience, simply attending college without a superior work ethic is an invitation to party at the parents' expense. If your child were placed on academic probation, would you consider your money well-spent? What do you do when you want them to go to college and they go, but don't do the work? In that case, I think that the road of hard knocks is exactly what they need to see the value of an education.
I'm less interested in seeing that kids adhere to some sort superior work ethic than I am in them simply attending college.
Really? I'm much more interested in their work ethic. I HOPE they graduate from college, I'll encourage it and help them out but if I saw a lack of work ethic I wouldn't choose to do that. A college degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on if the work ethic isn't there.
This is a major concern for us. I lost a very good paying job in a downsizing three years ago and now work for less than half of what I used to make. We're in trouble on this one. Our house will be paid off after our older daughter's third year of college and we'll have two years of both kids in college with a house payment.
Step one is to have both kids attend a community college for their first two years of college then transfer to a 4 year university. The cost of two years at a community college is about 1/4th the cost of two years at a 4 year university and the degree reads the same.
Step two will be me getting a night job once my youngest daughter graduates from high school. I'll need to do this for two years then the house will be paid off and we'll be able to handle college bills without me working a second job.
Unfortunately, I always assumed I'd be able to find lucrative employment (I'm educated enough to be over qualified for 90% of the jobs out there). I assumed I had time to save for college. Then unemployment and now under employment ate away at what we had saved and restricted what we can save. One way or the other, my kids will go to college. Hopefully, they'll finish in 4 years but if it takes 5 or 6 to manage the finances, at least they'll finish.
I wish I could go back and save more than I did. If you have young children, put something away every month even if it's only $50. Figure out how to save. Sadly, we only saved enough to pay for about one year at a four year university for each of our kids. We'll have to find the rest somewhere. Our worst case scenario is we use our 401K savings to pay for college and work until we die. Unfortunately, I assumed I'd be in position to contribute to a 401K until I was of retirement age but cannot with the salary I make now.
Really? I'm much more interested in their work ethic. I HOPE they graduate from college, I'll encourage it and help them out but if I saw a lack of work ethic I wouldn't choose to do that. A college degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on if the work ethic isn't there.
Perhaps, a better way to put it is that getting financial assistance from parents to attend college doesn't necessarily mean you won't have a good work ethic. When I attended school I always held a job. It wasn't full time. It was a part time job. The combination of the part time job and study time was a good one. I made some money and had plenty of time for study. When I wasn't in class or working, you could generally find me a the college library reading and studying for classes.
One example that I think is pertinent to this whole discussion is the experience a colleague of mine who works in my profession had. He had three kids. With Child 1, he decided that the kid should work his way through school with some minimal assistance from his father. The kid took a full time job to pay expenses and became convinced that a college degree was not necessary to his success, largely because the boss went around bad-mouthing college all the time. Child 1 dropped out of school and his job choices since have badly disappointed his father. He seems to have a penchant for wanting to be a salesman for multi-level marketing schemes that border on the illegal.
Child No. 2 had serious learning disabilities. Clearly college was not an option for her and so instead my colleague helped her find a job doing production work and occasionally provides her financial assistance. The type of work she does is gradually being eliminated and he is very worried she will end up on public assistance before her worklife is over.
Child No. 3 is a bright and gifted young man. My colleague totally changed his philosophy and insisted on providing the money to pay tuition so that his son could not only earn a BS Degree in Mathematics, but also paid for him to earn an MS Degree as well. The son now works for a major corporation earning a very high salary for someone in his thirties.
The irony and difficulty of college (higher education) today is this: (1) Its more expensive to get than ever before in real costs; (2) Without higher education, future job prospects will be bleaker than ever for those entering the labor force. We face competition not only at home, but from many foreign countries as well. When you, as a parent, decide how much assistance you can give your children to get higher education think carefully about both 1 and 2.
A work ethic is absolutely important. However, it won't get you far in life if your only job skill is the ability to dig ditches.
We started a college fund when each of our children were born. We also did the the prepaid tuition for our state, which has turned out to be a very good thing for us. As college expenses rise, we just cut back and pay it. We both had to work our ways through college and wanted our kids to have it easier than we did. We are totally committed to paying for college.
A work ethic is absolutely important. However, it won't get you far in life if your only job skill is the ability to dig ditches.
It is extremely doubtful that someone with an outstanding work ethic has only the ability to dig ditches. And funny you should mention this because I always tell my kids, that being the smartest kid on the block (which they weren't btw) was a nice thing to be (as is having a college degree) but in the long run, having a good work ethic and getting along with those you work with goes further. The college degree might get you in the door but it's up to you to stay there or be sought after. Oh, and there still ARE good jobs out there that do not require a college degree - and those people STILL will go further with a good work either. A college education is a piece of paper that opens doors. A good work ethic is reflective of a person's character. My goal is both but overall, if one of my kids had a plan for their future that didn't include college, I'd be OK with it as long as they had a well thought out plan.
I take exception with some of the statements you make:
...
2. One can't succeed unless one gets there on one's own.
Just to add my comment:
Education needs to be somewhat "your own." Even if it is only a small part of it. It gives the student responsibilities and the realization of consequences if they don't succeed. Its reasonable to pay the unsubsidized interest on the loans while the student is in college, but they should take on some piece of the burden.
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