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I love children and I especially enjoy it when I am seated near them in a restaurant. I have to restrain myself from helping to make them misbehave. And I will take that any day to being seated with my back to the person on a cell phone barking orders to evidently ignorant employees. They must be ignorant or they would find a job with someone who treats them with more respect.
To answer your question: Anyone who has no tolerance for children are just mean, nasty people.
It's very kind of you, you are certainly in minority here.
Be prepared to defend this position.
Personally, I don't know why people would bring young kids to a fancy restaurant. But I do agree, people can't be upset when there's kids at places like TGI Friday's, Denny's, Red Robin, diners, McDonald's, etc. Someone who would go to dinner at Denny's and then complain about kids just has their panties or tighty-whities in a bunch. Probably the people who get mad when a kid accidentally throws a ball in their yard.
Again, nothing wrong with having kids at places like that but what most of us have a problem with is UNRULLY children. I don't think I've seen a single post in this thread complaining about the mere pressence of a child. What we're all complaining about is children missbehaving and their parents not doing anything about it.
There was a time when my wife and I were having lunch at a steak house. There was a couple in the booth next to ours with a baby. In the middle of lunch the baby started crying and the mom immediately stood up and took the baby outside. After a few minutes, when she hadn't come back, the dad stood up and the mom came back by herself to continue her meal. When the dad came back with the baby, he had stopped crying and they put him back in his car seat.
There was another time when we went to McDonald's for lunch and the place was full of kids in the playland. There was a young couple with three children who were behaving beautifully. The mom and dad were having a conversation and the children didn't interrupt them once. When the youngest one finished his happy meal before his siblings, he asked his dad if he could go play and his dad told him, "Not without your brother and sister." The child (who looked 4) actually sat there quietly waiting for his siblings to finish their meals!
I remember telling my wife on both occasions that I wanted to go over and thank them for this. And that's the sad part. That behavior like that is so rare that one actually feels compelled to go and compliment or congratulate a parent who, in the end, is only doing their job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN
I love children and I especially enjoy it when I am seated near them in a restaurant. I have to restrain myself from helping to make them misbehave. And I will take that any day to being seated with my back to the person on a cell phone barking orders to evidently ignorant employees. They must be ignorant or they would find a job with someone who treats them with more respect.
To answer your question: Anyone who has no tolerance for children are just mean, nasty people.
Oh, don't get me started on the cellphones in restaurants, bud. Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that parents need to teach their children how to behave properly in public. It's part of socializing them.
As far as getting kids to misbehave, I'm sure that parents who actually keep their kids under control don't appreciate people like you.
Listen folks, I know that kids will be kids and that they will misbehave from time to time but there is an appropriate place and time for a child to run around being unrully and that's at the playground or the park or the beach, etc; NOT AT A TABLE OR A THEATER.
My cousin and I went to a movie once with her daughter. I had told her before we went to the theater what movie I wanted to watch and, when we got there, she suddenly tried to get me to watch whatever kids' movie was out that month. I told her, "No, I told you what movie I wanted to watch and you said it was cool. If you want to go see that with her, then I'll meet you out here when my movie is over."
Well, they came with me to see my movie but about 20 minutes into it, her daughter started getting fussy and people kept looking back at us. I told her, "Just take her out!" and she snapped back, "Yeah, it's easy for you since you're not the one missing the movie!" to which I said, "That's right, because I'm not the one with a kid!"
That little girl was three at the time and I've babysat her a few times since then (she's my god daughter). There was a time that she was unrully with everyone except me because she knew that I don't tolerate that kind of behavior. Now that her mom married her stepdad (and he's as much of a disciplinarian as I am) that little girl is the politest thing in the world. But even before he came along, she was always asking her mother when they could come over to my house or when I was going over to theirs.
Like I said before, children want attention from the grown ups in their lives and they'll do whatever they see works to get it. If you only react when they behave badly they'll get used to behaving badly but if you spend time with them doing structured things like playing a sport or a boardgame (my favorite) and you give them the condition that they can only play with you if they behave properly, then they'll behave properly. And they won't think of you as a grumpy or mean or nasty grown up. All they'll remember is that you took the time out to play with them.
I think some people forget that children are people too.
Just a few days ago, a woman scolded my daughter in a public restroom (I was in the stall next to her) for not being able to flush all the way (the handle was tricky). I was going to flush for her when I got out. So the woman tells her "you're supposed to flush the toilet. Didn't anyone ever teach you any manners?" My daughter said, "I'm sorry, but the handle is hard to turn and I'm waiting for my mommy to come out to help me." Then the lady goes into the stall, flushes the toilet, and says, "See that wasn't hard-it doesn't take brains to flush a toilet." So I got up, opened the door and told the "lady" how rude she was to my 7 year old. She's 7. by this time my daughter is crying...
So the "lady" says, "you need to keep your daughters on a leash. they don't need to be roaming around a bathroom by themselves." They weren't by themselves-I was in the NEXT stall with a 2 year old.
I then told her that it must feel really good to make a small child cry...then I told her to get her sizeable rear end out of my face.
So...yeah, a lot of people can be really intolerant of children, and I think it's sad...they have just as many feelings as we do.
I love children and I especially enjoy it when I am seated near them in a restaurant. I have to restrain myself from helping to make them misbehave. And I will take that any day to being seated with my back to the person on a cell phone barking orders to evidently ignorant employees. They must be ignorant or they would find a job with someone who treats them with more respect.
To answer your question: Anyone who has no tolerance for children are just mean, nasty people.
What about those that have no tolerance for parents that refuse to conrtol their children in a venue where they should be controlled? I believe that is the crux of the argument here.
That is bizarre. Babies and toddlers, I can understand but teenagers out with their Mom? That person has problems.
I agree. Maybe this would have been a good time to explain to the kids involved that not everyone in the world is nice or will be nice to them. It's a good lesson in tolerance for the kids so that they will have an idea what it's like to be treated unfairly and not do that to others.
Crazy, I don't think anyone forgets that children are people too. Nothing breaks my heart faster than seeing a child get their feelings hurt, however, I know that the reaction YOU, the parent has to something is usually what governs the reaction of the child.
It's all in the way the parent reacts. Had you felt the need to tell the woman off in front of your daughter, and instead said something directly to your daughter about how sometimes people are rude and thoughtless, but we shouldn't let it get the best of us, your daughter would have gained some strength from that.
Children take their cues from the parent FIRST. They are more in tune with what the parent says and behaves than anybody else. Especially smaller children. They read how they are to react to any kind of situation from their parents, the people they trust the most.
If a parent gives the child the cue that they should feel badly about something, the child will feel badly. If a parent gives the child the cue that they should be angry about something, the child will feel angry, and so on.
If a parent sits and allows a child to act up and bother others in a restaurant, the child will do so thinking it's ok with mom and dad. To make matters worse, in some cases, the parent becomes frazzled and the child gets confused wondering why mom or dad are becoming so upset. As a result, the child panics in the only way they know how; act out to draw the attention of the parents to comfort him or her.
When the attitude of some is 'Tough luck. If you don't like my child acting like a crazy monkey in a restaurant, just leave.', the child understands that he can do anything he wants and mom and dad aren't going to do anything because they ACTUALLY APPROVE of that kind of behavior.
Kids start reading their parents cues from infancy. How the parent behaves is usually a fair indication of how the kids behave.
I think some people forget that children are people too.
Just a few days ago, a woman scolded my daughter in a public restroom (I was in the stall next to her) for not being able to flush all the way (the handle was tricky). I was going to flush for her when I got out. So the woman tells her "you're supposed to flush the toilet. Didn't anyone ever teach you any manners?" My daughter said, "I'm sorry, but the handle is hard to turn and I'm waiting for my mommy to come out to help me." Then the lady goes into the stall, flushes the toilet, and says, "See that wasn't hard-it doesn't take brains to flush a toilet." So I got up, opened the door and told the "lady" how rude she was to my 7 year old. She's 7. by this time my daughter is crying...
So the "lady" says, "you need to keep your daughters on a leash. they don't need to be roaming around a bathroom by themselves." They weren't by themselves-I was in the NEXT stall with a 2 year old.
I then told her that it must feel really good to make a small child cry...then I told her to get her sizeable rear end out of my face.
So...yeah, a lot of people can be really intolerant of children, and I think it's sad...they have just as many feelings as we do.
Funny that you bring up a situation like this because I can remember times when my dad straight up punched other grown men for talking to us in a rude manner (once in El Salvador, where we come from and you couldn't get arrested for that, and once here when my uncle was drunk and cursed at us).
He may have overreacted but that's why I never scold strange children and why I don't scold my own nieces and nephews or cousins until I know it's okay with their parents.
I understand that that protective instinct kicks in when you feel someone else has overstepped their bounds. More the reason to get your kids to act right so such incidents can be avoided.
Of course, in your case, if it really happened how you describe; I think that lady was just a rude kunth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses
Crazy, I don't think anyone forgets that children are people too. Nothing breaks my heart faster than seeing a child get their feelings hurt, however, I know that the reaction YOU, the parent has to something is usually what governs the reaction of the child.
It's all in the way the parent reacts. Had you felt the need to tell the woman off in front of your daughter, and instead said something directly to your daughter about how sometimes people are rude and thoughtless, but we shouldn't let it get the best of us, your daughter would have gained some strength from that.
Children take their cues from the parent FIRST. They are more in tune with what the parent says and behaves than anybody else. Especially smaller children. They read how they are to react to any kind of situation from their parents, the people they trust the most.
If a parent gives the child the cue that they should feel badly about something, the child will feel badly. If a parent gives the child the cue that they should be angry about something, the child will feel angry, and so on.
If a parent sits and allows a child to act up and bother others in a restaurant, the child will do so thinking it's ok with mom and dad. To make matters worse, in some cases, the parent becomes frazzled and the child gets confused wondering why mom or dad are becoming so upset. As a result, the child panics in the only way they know how; act out to draw the attention of the parents to comfort him or her.
When the attitude of some is 'Tough luck. If you don't like my child acting like a crazy monkey in a restaurant, just leave.', the child understands that he can do anything he wants and mom and dad aren't going to do anything because they ACTUALLY APPROVE of that kind of behavior.
Kids start reading their parents cues from infancy. How the parent behaves is usually a fair indication of how the kids behave.
Personally, I don't know why people would bring young kids to a fancy restaurant. But I do agree, people can't be upset when there's kids at places like TGI Friday's, Denny's, Red Robin, diners, McDonald's, etc. Someone who would go to dinner at Denny's and then complain about kids just has their panties or tighty-whities in a bunch. Probably the people who get mad when a kid accidentally throws a ball in their yard.
I certainly don't mind kids at Friday's, Denny's, etc. These are definately family restaurants. I do mind that the kids parents let them run wild, let the todlers make a huge mess with food all over, let pretty big kids throw temper tantrums, etc. Just because you are at a family friendly place it doesn't mean you shouldn't control your kids. If I go to eat with my family at Red Robin, the kids have fun but don't get to pitch a fit, scream, stand up in the booth, run around the place, etc. They get one warning, then it's immediately out to the car to wait for the others to finish and no, they don't get their food to go.
McDonalds, Burger King? I don't expect any civility there. I wouldn't be surprised if some vulgar idiot changed their baby's diaper right on the table next to me.
Also, I love to see kids in very nice restaurants having a nice time with their parents. Even if they are 6 years old, if they are dressed appropriately and can handle themselves...it's lovely. I don't really appreciate bringing babies into very high end places. I just don't get it. The parents surely can afford a baby sitter. And some of the trendy expensive places are just so NOT what you would want to subject a baby to. The music is loud, everyone is speaking loudly, the lighting is usually odd...there is no way a baby could sleep through that! And, lo and behold they don't. They start screaming, then their stupid parents take them out of the carrier and pass them back and forth, looking around for applause or something. God how these jerks annoy everyone else. Your kid should not be in this restaurant. He looks miserable and he is making everyone else miserable. Bravo, you had a kid, here's a standing O, now take him out!
I've noticed that a lot of these dopes use their babies as fashion accents, like a stupid model carrying around a chihuhua (sp?). I've seen plenty of the dumb "hipsters" in my city dragging a baby around to art walks at 10:00 pm while they chug down wine. The poor little baby of course screams the entire time and the parents do the OH, POOR LITTLE SASHIMI! WHAT IS WRONG SASHIMI? NOW, WE HAVE TO STOP CRYING SASHIMI! All in overly loud voices, all the while looking to see if they have an audience. Ugg. That kid is in for a rough 18 years living with those dopes.
Normal kids in appropriate places acting appropriately are appreciated by almost everyone. Or ignored, because even the evil child haters don't notice them because they aren't acting like idiots. For you guys that run into people evil eyeing you...maybe you should review what YOU are doing to get the same reaction over and over. My guess is that you let the kids act like little brats.
I love children and I especially enjoy it when I am seated near them in a restaurant. I have to restrain myself from helping to make them misbehave. And I will take that any day to being seated with my back to the person on a cell phone barking orders to evidently ignorant employees. They must be ignorant or they would find a job with someone who treats them with more respect.
To answer your question: Anyone who has no tolerance for children are just mean, nasty people.
I also detest idiots on cell phones (in a public place that others are trapped in) that talk above a very low voice and don't end the call pronto. I usually just start participating in the conversation if they are really loud mouths. When they realize what I'm doing they are so shocked they end the call and are left dumbstruck. It's a very effective method of dealing with the really bad offenders. I may be shot for this one day, but I'll take the chance.
I don't like or dislike kids in general--just like I don't like or dislike adults in general. I judge people on an as I experience them basis. I have no tollerance for the kids, but especially the parents of the kids who are acting like monkeys in a restaurant. I don't think I'm mean or nasty. I think they are.
I think some people forget that children are people too.
Just a few days ago, a woman scolded my daughter in a public restroom (I was in the stall next to her) for not being able to flush all the way (the handle was tricky). I was going to flush for her when I got out. So the woman tells her "you're supposed to flush the toilet. Didn't anyone ever teach you any manners?" My daughter said, "I'm sorry, but the handle is hard to turn and I'm waiting for my mommy to come out to help me." Then the lady goes into the stall, flushes the toilet, and says, "See that wasn't hard-it doesn't take brains to flush a toilet." So I got up, opened the door and told the "lady" how rude she was to my 7 year old. She's 7. by this time my daughter is crying...
So the "lady" says, "you need to keep your daughters on a leash. they don't need to be roaming around a bathroom by themselves." They weren't by themselves-I was in the NEXT stall with a 2 year old.
I then told her that it must feel really good to make a small child cry...then I told her to get her sizeable rear end out of my face.
So...yeah, a lot of people can be really intolerant of children, and I think it's sad...they have just as many feelings as we do.
What a jerk that woman was. I hate rude people. That is why I don't appreciate the parents that let kids ruin the dining experience of others. I guess our entire culture is going into the toilet regarding manners.
I can't imagine speaking to someone's child as she spoke to yours! She must live a miserable life if she picks on a little kid.
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That person has problems.