Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Believe it or not, there are plenty of kids who do the things you mention with no pressure put on them from anyone other than themselves. It's likely though, that you would have to see and spend a decent amount of time with such a child in order to understand what I mean and believe it to be true.
Some children are simply predisposed to be quick learners, curious enough to search until they have the answer they seek and have a deeper understanding of concepts beyond their young age. These children challenge the adults in their lives to answer the questions they ask. These children also find ways to accomplish what they want with or without support.
Child care is my profession and as just one example, there was a little boy who had just turned 3 when he came to our child care center. He had been in 5 different foster homes before coming to us with the family that had just recently adopted him. I doubt very seriously that in temporary foster care that anyone had pressured him on any sort of academic as his health needs had been pretty heavy. However, a couple of weeks into being with us, we discovered this little boy was reading. Completely reading on his own. Not just a book he had been read over and over so that he memorized it, but he could read darn near anything you handed him. He had an innate ability to absorb and retain anything that had to do with reading and somehow despite the odds against him, he had accomplished that level before he had turned 3. It was amazing. Yes, that's uncommon, but it shows it happens.
So, just keep an open mind that there are all kinds of learners. And perhaps you might have one of your own someday that jumps leaps and bounds ahead of the 'norm' and you've done nothing to push that through and then you'll understand.
Thank you for your post. People who do not know me assume I spend my time pushing my dd to do stuff. The people who know how laid back I am know that I do not have the inclination to spend hours drilling anyone. Also both of my kids are very stubborn and when they say no it is no. My fault is that I do like to brag about my kids.
I think that many do indeed even out, but I think some of that has to do with educational expectations, life situations and adult support more than the ability of the individual child. Somewhat like their situations do not promote them continuing to progress at the rate they had been previously.
I should have clarified that they even out when it comes to simple things like reading and writing. Sort of like all babies walk be it at 9 months or 19 months. And yes I have seen both extremes.
All parents whose children can read and write their names at the age 4, have applied some sort of pressure, one way or the other. I don't care what some say, that it just came naturally to those, that they had already developed very fine motor skills prior to name writing. etc.
This is not necessarily true. I have 3 kids. One was very interested in reading (not writing) at young age. The other two were not.
It is not natural for children to be interested in such "academic" things at 4. So I stick to my guns that THERE IS pressure all around for poor children today to do things that come against their grain at 4.
The problem is that some children are interested in academic things at an early age. Other are not. When parents of those who are not see that SOME are doing something that their little angel is NOT doing then they freak out and put all sorts of pressure on them.
I did receive some good tips on this thread that can lead to a decent compromise between personal philosophy (play and be free at 4) and reality (cut throat competition from day 1).
YOU create the reality for your family. If you want cut throat competition you can create it. If you don't, then don't create it.
Just remember, the kid who reads first is not the one who necessarily reads BEST. IMO it is more important for a child to actually excel at reading, not just to be the one who does it first. The two do not go hand in hand.
All those kids that were reading at age 5 in K are not the same kids who are taking honors/AP classes with my later reader.
there was a little boy who had just turned 3 when he came to our child care center. A couple of weeks into being with us, we discovered this little boy was reading. Completely reading on his own. Yes, that's uncommon, but it shows it happens.
So, just keep an open mind that there are all kinds of learners.
Hypocore,
The trouble with such examples is that they tend to generalize the exception. "Generalizing" is legitimate as long as we generalize what's really generalizable.
I do keep an open mind and I am convinced that the boy you mentioned accomplished all that you said without any pushing or prodding. I also believe the same about what Mozart was accomplishing at a very young age.
That being said, I find it hard to believe that ALL (or even MOST) of these kids I see/hear of doing all those academic things at 2-3-4 yos. are doing it without any pushing and prodding, but strictly out of their natural curiosity for letters, numbers and the like.
Instead, the opposite is true. Most who are at that level at those ages do it BECAUSE of some form of pushing and prodding, more or less overt.
Is that likely to backfire in the long run? It is safe to argue "yes" - especially if you look at the hard data and see how "reading for pleasure" rates go down as students advance through their grades.
Reading for pleasure goes down as kids age because they have more stuff to do. All of my kids read for pleasure, but they also have other interests and limited time to pursue all those interests, so they spend less time reading for pleasure than they did when they were younger.
Hypocore,
The trouble with such examples is that they tend to generalize the exception. "Generalizing" is legitimate as long as we generalize what's really generalizable.
I do keep an open mind and I am convinced that the boy you mentioned accomplished all that you said without any pushing or prodding. I also believe the same about what Mozart was accomplishing at a very young age.
That being said, I find it hard to believe that ALL (or even MOST) of these kids I see/hear of doing all those academic things at 2-3-4 yos. are doing it without any pushing and prodding, but strictly out of their natural curiosity for letters, numbers and the like.
Instead, the opposite is true. Most who are at that level at those ages do it BECAUSE of some form of pushing and prodding, more or less overt.
Is that likely to backfire in the long run? It is safe to argue "yes" - especially if you look at the hard data and see how "reading for pleasure" rates go down as students advance through their grades.
Why do you care and/or seem so obsessed with what other parents/children are doing?
You are creating a situation that doesn't have to exist if you would just chill.
Read all the stats. Compare all you want.
If anything , you are coming off exactly like those you are so angry at...it makes no sense.
Parenting is not a competitive sport unless the parent chooses to make it so. No one is forcing you to be so obsessed over all of this & it is all you...no one else. Stop blaming, judging and take control of your parenting instead of finding others to criticize for where you feel you are lacking.
That being said, I find it hard to believe that ALL (or even MOST) of these kids I see/hear of doing all those academic things at 2-3-4 yos. are doing it without any pushing and prodding, but strictly out of their natural curiosity for letters, numbers and the like.
Instead, the opposite is true. Most who are at that level at those ages do it BECAUSE of some form of pushing and prodding, more or less overt.
Is that likely to backfire in the long run? It is safe to argue "yes" - especially if you look at the hard data and see how "reading for pleasure" rates go down as students advance through their grades.
As the parent of Montessori kids, my experience is the opposite. Children *love* to learn naturally. They are little sponges and they soak up massive amounts of data very early on. And they are often eager to apply that learning to their environment.
Child neurologists are also finding that the learning methods similar to Montessori are aligned with how children like to learn. It's not forced or driven, because the child leads the learning, and the teacher instructs and guides.
So, for example, a child is not required to sit at a desk and write out math problems for one hour every day at two o-clock. That is not natural. Instead they get together with their friends, and they count beads, divide them amongst each other, add piles of beads together, subtract them, count up groups of beads. And they do for as long as they are interested. If they complete the lesson in 10 minutes, great, you're done, move on to something else! If it takes them a week, that's fine too. If they don't want to work on Wednesday, that's okay. They can't skip it, but can choose when to do it.
Because this is a low-pressure learning system, kids do enjoy learning. My daughter was home sick for a week. Montessori doesn't do traditional homework, so she had the week off. She was bored and told me she wanted to write her numbers. So her teach sent home the number sheets and, without a single word of prompting from me, a four-year-old sat at the table and trace five pages of numbers until she was done.
They read for fun. They do projects for fun. Last night, my older daughter wanted to give me a report (her words) on a TV show she watched earlier in the day. She stood in front of me and give me a good summary of the show from beginning to end and barely paused or um'ed. These things are fun for them because they aren't pressured and pushed.
And this child-oriented approach works in many different ways and methods, not just Montessori based schools. Many home schools use it and because of that, the kids like learning and because they enjoy it, they excel.
Learning is a natural and enjoyable discovery. How sad it is that politicians have sucked out all the joy and made education and intelligence soul-crushing work in the public schools and, even worse, set people to expect it to be miserable.
Hypocore,
The trouble with such examples is that they tend to generalize the exception. "Generalizing" is legitimate as long as we generalize what's really generalizable.
I do keep an open mind and I am convinced that the boy you mentioned accomplished all that you said without any pushing or prodding. I also believe the same about what Mozart was accomplishing at a very young age.
That being said, I find it hard to believe that ALL (or even MOST) of these kids I see/hear of doing all those academic things at 2-3-4 yos. are doing it without any pushing and prodding, but strictly out of their natural curiosity for letters, numbers and the like.
Instead, the opposite is true. Most who are at that level at those ages do it BECAUSE of some form of pushing and prodding, more or less overt.
Is that likely to backfire in the long run? It is safe to argue "yes" - especially if you look at the hard data and see how "reading for pleasure" rates go down as students advance through their grades.
Of course it's generalizing, much the same way you are doing by stating you don't believe that most of the children achieving things early are doing so by their own free will. Just because you don't believe it or haven't seen it doesn't make it so.
I've simply tried to relay a bit of my experience, which is quite varied because I have 4 kids, (two daughters already rasied to adulthood) and I've been in the child care profession for almost 20 years. So I've seen a tremendous amount of variety amongst children and their learning styles, levels and abilities. Plus the same amongst parents.
I've seen parents push and push their child and it has zero effect because the child simply isn't capable of it at that stage of their life.
I've seen parents practically ignore their child and the child soars academically, creatively or athletically.
I've seen uneducated parents with children who surpass their parents knowledge at age 5 despite the inability of the parent to help the child.
Have I seen it all? Certainly not. However, I've seen enough to understand that all things are possible and I keep my mind open to the possibilities of things I haven't yet seen or experienced, because I KNOW they can occur.
So, for example, a child is not required to sit at a desk and write out math problems for one hour every day at two o-clock. That is not natural. Instead they get together with their friends, and they count beads, divide them amongst each other, add piles of beads together, subtract them, count up groups of beads. And they do for as long as they are interested. If they complete the lesson in 10 minutes, great, you're done, move on to something else! If it takes them a week, that's fine too. If they don't want to work on Wednesday, that's okay. They can't skip it, but can choose when to do it.
My biggest question and which has been shown at times to be trying for children who attend Montessori for some length of time...that when they are assimilated into the traditional world and have to sit & have to follow a set of rules, they struggle.
When your child gets a job at 16 yet has been taught for years that he/she can pick & choose how they want to complete something, the internal struggle is there. A boss is a boss and sometimes rules/systems due have to be followed regardless of if they are interested in it or not.
For the record, I see amazing value in the Montessori system. Yet, it is not without it own set of flaws like everything else
In fact, I know LOTS of parents who pressure their children a lot.
They're called "parents from designated good school districts".
All parents whose children can read and write their names at the age 4, have applied some sort of pressure, one way or the other. I don't care what some say, that it just came naturally to those, that they had already developed very fine motor skills prior to name writing. etc.
The bottom line is if someone would not have "pressured" them into writing their name (parents, schools, whoever) than they would have had no business writing their names at 4, in the first place.
The way God/Nature (whoever rocks your boat better) intended it is for 4 yo-s to be climbing trees, hurt knees, run around and stomp the ground.
(Need a poetry prize, please ).
It is not natural for children to be interested in such "academic" things at 4. So I stick to my guns that THERE IS pressure all around for poor children today to do things that come against their grain at 4.
I have no illusions that these kids do not grow up with stolen childhoods.
They do.
Look how many mothers on this very thread said that their kids at 4 wrote words, read fluently, did this or that acdemic thing.
That's pressure, no matter how you put it and no matter how "easily" it came to any given child.
I know how things SHOULD BE. What I didn't know for sure was what I should do in a world where things ARE NOT supposed to be the way they should in the first place.
I did receive some good tips on this thread that can lead to a decent compromise between personal philosophy (play and be free at 4) and reality (cut throat competition from day 1).
It's simply not true that kids who can read or write at 4 have been subject to parental pressure. My dd was writing her name at 4 and reading very easy words, but not because anyone had "drilled" her on anything. We read books to her from an early age and colored and with her and talked about words and letters. She also *gasp* learned a lot from Sesame Street. I remember at her preschool one afternoon when I picked her up that she was reading the names of the kids off a list in the classroom and another parent was looking at me funny and asked "Is she reading those?" I replied that I thought she just recognized the first letter and was putting the rest together. It wasn't anything we taught her to do. It's just something she picked up from the things we did for fun.
Also, it's not a matter of being interested in "academic" things. Lots of kids like to sit on the couch with a grownup and have books read to them. They like to ask questions and to be asked questions. They like to play counting games and sing counting songs. At least my dd enjoyed all those things. I'm sure there are other kids who prefer climbing trees and rough-housing outside, but she was never nearly as interested in those things as she was in staying inside and playing with blocks. In fact, physically she was "behind" most kids. She didn't sit up until she was 8 months old and didn't walk until she was almost 16 months old. She's still not very physically adept. But we never pushed her to play sports because all the other kids did. But, she's found a physical activity that she enjoys--tae kwon do--and is getting pretty good at it.
As to your OP, she's a 5th grader now and when they put work up in the classroom I've noticed that some kids still have very irregular, messy handwriting. Different kids are different.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
).
