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There is also strong evidence for peer influences being stronger than parnental influences.
This is a fairly recent phenomenon that our society started to see post WWII. It's not something that I see as positive at all. Attached is an interesting (and short) article about peer orientation
One reason (of many reasons) why I chose to be a sahm is so that my child would form her strongest attachment to me, not a daycare provider or her peers.
It's nice when life makes it black and white. I kind of feel for people who feel they're in a gray area. It's nice knowing that my choice was, clearly, best. I can see where I would have been struggling with the choice if my income were where it is now back then. It could get hard to decide if working made enough of a positive impact to be justified and hard to decide if not working were costing my family too much.
I'm glad I was making this decision then and not now.
This is a fairly recent phenomenon that our society started to see post WWII. It's not something that I see as positive at all. Attached is an interesting (and short) article about peer orientation
One reason (of many reasons) why I chose to be a sahm is so that my child would form her strongest attachment to me, not a daycare provider or her peers.
Wrong on both counts. Children who attend day care are not more stronly attached to their day care providers than their parents and you can't stop your kids, nor should you want to stop them, from forming strong attachments with their peers.
I do think peer orientation is more pronounced today than 100 years ago but I don't think it has anything to do with mom's working. I think it has to do with children having lost their place in the family (much like women only worse as they have none).
Way back when, a child or teen's labors were needed by the family. They were valued and valuable members of the family. They knew they contributed to the success of the family and there had to pride and a sense of unity in that. Now we just tell our children they are our special little snowflakes and expect them to have great self esteem. They may do chores but their labors don't contribute to the success of the family. They are not members of the family team working towards a common goal, like say bringing in a harvest or gathering food or sheering the sheep...etc, etc, etc... Now life revolves around kids and their entertainment. IMO, this is the biggest change the last 100 years has brought. Children used to be born into families and expected to contribute to the family. Now the family tranforms around the children. No wonder they push to break out on their own.
We would like to start a family sometime in the near future, but feel like we just can’t afford it! We wouldn't make enough money to pay all our bills for me to be a SAHM and my part-time job right now I will have to quit in August (for student teaching). If I stay home we will basically be losing money every month and if we pay a babysitter or daycare we will still lose money every month (since I don't know when I will find another job). Yeah, we will probably (have to) wait, but then I feel like we would need to wait another one to two years so that I wouldn't be pregnant my first year at a new job.
We don’t have credit card bills or anything like that to pay off first; just regular mortgage payments, car payments, student loans, and similar bills. We don’t eat out a lot or buy tons of unnecessary stuff right now, so even if we cut that back we won’t be saving much.
Basically after all my ranting and going on (boo hoo for us) my question is, how do people in our situation ever afford to have a baby?
It's good you don't have credit cards but you should eliminate car payments. I'd get rid of them before you have a child. It's smart to buy cars with cash and have only a mortgage as debt.
What some couples do is work different shifts to save on babysitting costs if they have no source of free babysitting like family members.
Or one works weekends while the other works weekdays. Or work from home, provide day care for other people for example, offer tutoring services if you like teaching.
We planned and budgeted for our twins (we're a gay couple and purposely had twins via surrogacy/egg donor), but didn't budget for me getting laid off and my partner having his salary significantly reduced! We had a nanny the first year, and we were starting to really feel the pinch since we were paying her $2400 a month. Then I was laid off, which actually worked out well because I've been getting UI for the past year. And yes, I've been very actively looking for work the entire time. On the one hand, it's been great to be home and bonding with the kids, but we've had to watch our money. It really isn't worth it for both parents to work unless you're both making over $60K. Daycare is expensive for twins... the nearest daycare wants $2800 a month for them both! We found a good non-profit daycare that will be $1600 a month, so we're hoping to have two slots next August to get them in and me go back to work. By then the boys should be potty trained, so it gets cheaper for daycare.
Twins are definitely a LOT more expensive. Initially we were spending well over $100 a month on formula, probably $75 in diapers, then every 6 months you need to buy two new sets of clothes for them. We have many babies in our neighborhood, so neighbors tend to donated clothes to one another, which has helped. We don't eat out hardly at all, don't spend much on ourselves at all, but we'll make it and it will get easier. As for staying home, I've found that some mothers like it, and others don't. I now can see how it can be stressful at times, especially w/twins. But amazing too.
We would like to start a family sometime in the near future, but feel like we just can’t afford it! We wouldn't make enough money to pay all our bills for me to be a SAHM and my part-time job right now I will have to quit in August (for student teaching). If I stay home we will basically be losing money every month and if we pay a babysitter or daycare we will still lose money every month (since I don't know when I will find another job). Yeah, we will probably (have to) wait, but then I feel like we would need to wait another one to two years so that I wouldn't be pregnant my first year at a new job.
We don’t have credit card bills or anything like that to pay off first; just regular mortgage payments, car payments, student loans, and similar bills. We don’t eat out a lot or buy tons of unnecessary stuff right now, so even if we cut that back we won’t be saving much.
Basically after all my ranting and going on (boo hoo for us) my question is, how do people in our situation ever afford to have a baby?
I just want to applaud you for thinking ahead. Your concern about how you're going to manage is a strong indication that you will make wonderful parents when that day finally arrives.
If you wait till you are ready socially or finacially then you will never have the baby. I know we could have had my daughter at a different time and times would have been better but I wouldn't change her for the world. Besides, I always say this, "There are people with much less that have more kids and they make it". You just got to make those sacrifices but the joy of children can't be replaced.
Wrong on both counts. Children who attend day care are not more stronly attached to their day care providers than their parents and you can't stop your kids, nor should you want to stop them, from forming strong attachments with their peers.
I do think peer orientation is more pronounced today than 100 years ago but I don't think it has anything to do with mom's working. I think it has to do with children having lost their place in the family (much like women only worse as they have none).
Way back when, a child or teen's labors were needed by the family. They were valued and valuable members of the family. They knew they contributed to the success of the family and there had to pride and a sense of unity in that. Now we just tell our children they are our special little snowflakes and expect them to have great self esteem. They may do chores but their labors don't contribute to the success of the family. They are not members of the family team working towards a common goal, like say bringing in a harvest or gathering food or sheering the sheep...etc, etc, etc... Now life revolves around kids and their entertainment. IMO, this is the biggest change the last 100 years has brought. Children used to be born into families and expected to contribute to the family. Now the family tranforms around the children. No wonder they push to break out on their own.
We don't have to accept the status quo. Grow a vegetable garden in the back yard. Plant some fruit trees. Learn how to can. Raise some chickens. Cook from scratch. Knit, sew, crochet. Line dry your laundry. All of these things will not only help bring back some of the values and responsibility you find lacking in today's culture (and I actually agree with you on this one) they'll also help save money.
We don't have to accept the status quo. Grow a vegetable garden in the back yard. Plant some fruit trees. Learn how to can. Raise some chickens. Cook from scratch. Knit, sew, crochet. Line dry your laundry. All of these things will not only help bring back some of the values and responsibility you find lacking in today's culture (and I actually agree with you on this one) they'll also help save money.
The issue isn't accepting it but, rather, being unable to change it. Just growing a garden doesn't bring back the sense of belonging to the family team that must have existed 100 years ago on the family farm. It's just playing where that was reality.
Pretending things haven't changed, won't change that they have. Kids know that sewing and cooking from scratch are no longer needed functions. What is lost is the importance of the job not the ability to do it. We can still bake bread or buy a cow and milk it but that doesn't change that we no longer NEED to do those things so they have lost their importance. It was in the importance of the work children and teens did that the sense of being part of the family team was born not in the job itself. You can't replace that by growing a garden or making jelly.
One of the reasons women have pushed their way into the work force is the importance of the job they did at home is gone. It's no longer a case of the family can't survive without her labors at home. Not only can they survive without them, they can do so well now because much of what women, traditionally, did is easily and cheaply replaced. In working a job and bringing in an income, women can replace the importance of what they do. Children don't have that option. Well, they do but, usually, they're not handing over their paycheck to their parents to help pay the bills.
The issue isn't accepting it but, rather, being unable to change it. Just growing a garden doesn't bring back the sense of belonging to the family team that must have existed 100 years ago on the family farm. It's just playing where that was reality.
Pretending things haven't changed, won't change that they have. Kids know that sewing and cooking from scratch are no longer needed functions. What is lost is the importance of the job not the ability to do it. We can still bake bread or buy a cow and milk it but that doesn't change that we no longer NEED to do those things so they have lost their importance. It was in the importance of the work children and teens did that the sense of being part of the family team was born not in the job itself. You can't replace that by growing a garden or making jelly.
One of the reasons women have pushed their way into the work force is the importance of the job they did at home is gone. It's no longer a case of the family can't survive without her labors at home. Not only can they survive without them, they can do so well now because much of what women, traditionally, did is easily and cheaply replaced. In working a job and bringing in an income, women can replace the importance of what they do. Children don't have that option. Well, they do but, usually, they're not handing over their paycheck to their parents to help pay the bills.
I probably never will teach my kids how to can jelly, spin wool, slaughter pigs or churn butter. You're right, people don't do these things like they used to. Why would they?
But there are still plenty of chores to do around the house and, yes, my kids are expected to pitch in and help out every day. They do their jobs at home and work hard in school. We have taught and will continue to teach them the skills that they need to live in today's world - how to do their own laundry, type on/troubleshoot/use the computer, fix their own meals, change a flat tire, paint their own house, steam clean a carpet, basic yard maintenance, how to balance a checkbook....
Seriously, we are not at a loss for what to teach them because there is so much for them to learn. So, while it's true that our kids will probably never learn how to shoe a horse, they will be shown how to change their car's oil/air filter/battery. Mode of transportation may have changed, but basic maintenance is still needed .
Last edited by springfieldva; 03-06-2010 at 01:56 PM..
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They may do chores but their labors don't contribute to the success of the family. They are not members of the family team working towards a common goal, like say bringing in a harvest or gathering food or sheering the sheep...etc, etc, etc... Now life revolves around kids and their entertainment. 
IMO, this is the biggest change the last 100 years has brought. Children used to be born into families and expected to contribute to the family. Now the family tranforms around the children. No wonder they push to break out on their own.
Grow a vegetable garden in the back yard. Plant some fruit trees. Learn how to can. Raise some chickens. Cook from scratch. Knit, sew, crochet. Line dry your laundry. All of these things will not only help bring back some of the values and responsibility you find lacking in today's culture (and I actually agree with you on this one
) they'll also help save money.
