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What should happen at the school is this: student reports a threat from another child. Staff at school evaluate the threat....find witnesses to determine if the threat is legitimate. Talk to the child who made the threat, talk to the parents of said child. Determine if the child needs some type of intervention. Talk to victim. Talk to victim's parents. ASSESS THE THREAT. Take appropriate measures, whatever those should be.
The only choices on this thread seem to be either 'suck it up, victim, knee him in the groin' or 'go arrest this child, there is no hope, it is the next Columbine in the making!'
C'mon, people! The middle road, the sane thing to do, is to ensure that the school is taking appropriate steps to ASSESS THE THREAT. That is what the post-columbine research says to do. Not ignore it, boys will be boys, suck it up surely he didn't mean what he said; and not oh my god go get this kid, expell him, never let him on campus again because there is no way he is 10 he will grow up to be another school shooter.....
So, OP and other parents of children who have had similar things happen -
GO TO THE SCHOOL. find out from the teacher/principal/superintendent what their threat assessment policy is, what the bullying policy is, and make sure that they use the policies to take care of the situation in a way that protects all students. All schools have these policies. Make sure they are not in name only, ask how they are implemented, be your child's advocate and follow through.
Never step foot on that bus again? Yeah, that will fix that bully. It will give him exactly what he wants.
And you would move to a different school system? You mean one where there are no bullies?
Kids need to learn how to not be bullied. Empower the kids. Teach them how to handle situations.
I agree that avoiding the bully is not the solution b/c there may be something in your son's personality that is attracting the bullying. I knew someone who was bullied no matter where he lived (he moved every three years) -- had nothing to do with the particular school, location or class of people.
You need to get your son evaluated to see if there is something that kids are picking up on that makes him "different". There may be something amiss. I don't mean to scare you, but you need to nip this in the bud.
I agree about the karate classes -- it will boost his strength and self-confidence. Do they give out pins when they earn their blackbelt? That way, your son can wear the badge to school and put bullies on notice that he is blackbelt certified. It is not that hard to get the blackbelt if you are determined. Hey, he could put on a karate demonstration at the school talent show -- lol!
I also think a youth group at your local church (if you attend) would be good b/c he can acquire some social and character-building skills as well.
I agree that avoiding the bully is not the solution b/c there may be something in your son's personality that is attracting the bullying. I knew someone who was bullied no matter where he lived (he moved every three years) -- had nothing to do with the particular school, location or class of people.
You need to get your son evaluated to see if there is something that kids are picking up on that makes him "different". There may be something amiss. I don't mean to scare you, but you need to nip this in the bud.
I agree about the karate classes -- it will boost his strength and self-confidence. Do they give out pins when they earn their blackbelt? That way, your son can wear the badge to school and put bullies on notice that he is blackbelt certified. It is not that hard to get the blackbelt if you are determined. Hey, he could put on a karate demonstration at the school talent show -- lol!
I also think a youth group at your local church (if you attend) would be good b/c he can acquire some social and character-building skills as well.
While I agree with most of your post, the bolded is simply blaming the victim. Maybe the kid speaks with a lisp or does not wear the latest fashions... does that really mean that it's okay for him to be bullied because he's "different"? Guess what? It's okay to be different. Everyone does not have to be a sheep or a clone, even though there is pressure to be like everyone else when you are in school. This is the BULLY'S fault, period. Not the kid's fault for being "different" in any way, shape, or form. Aren't schools all about teaching kids tolerance for every type of lifestyle out there, anyway? Are little boys with a slight "difference" exempt from the "everyone deserves respect" rule?
While I agree with most of your post, the bolded is simply blaming the victim. Maybe the kid speaks with a lisp or does not wear the latest fashions... does that really mean that it's okay for him to be bullied because he's "different"? Guess what? It's okay to be different. Everyone does not have to be a sheep or a clone, even though there is pressure to be like everyone else when you are in school. This is the BULLY'S fault, period. Not the kid's fault for being "different" in any way, shape, or form. Aren't schools all about teaching kids tolerance for every type of lifestyle out there, anyway? Are little boys with a slight "difference" exempt from the "everyone deserves respect" rule?
Agree with this. And also, some children are gentle-natured and they will attract bullies wherever they go simply for that reason -- they are an easy mark. A child shouldn't have to be a pitbull to get some respect. I abhor this "blame the victim" crap. It's about time we start blaming the perpetrator.
Gottasay --The suggestion to have her child evaluated -- WTH??? That sends a message to the victim that there is something wrong with him! There is NOT! There is something wrong with the bully, period. Plus no where has she indicated that her child gets picked on a lot or by other kids. It's this ONE psycho child who is the bully. Furthermore, no child schooled in martial arts would ever wear a badge indicating his level of skill. That would be seen as a challenge and is against the entire philosophy of martial arts. Gee whiz! Not to mention, I doubt a small boy is eager to become a road warrior no matter how much self defense training he has. Better to walk quietly and carry a big stick.
88texasaggie -- About that "middle road," while that sounds sensible, I still maintain that a kid who threatens to kill another child and has already elaborated on his method and weapon of choice is NOT NORMAL. This is extreme and calls for extreme responses.
Have we really gotten so far away from what is normal, civilized behavior that we think this kind of threat coming from a CHILD is somehow within the parameters of "sometimes to be expected . . . "????
You can assess the threat all you want to but in the end, never be comfortable with this kind of behavior. I mean, seriously, what are you going to do if the "experts" decide he was just blowing smoke? What then? Tell him not to say those things cause they're not nice things to say?
Last edited by chattypatty; 02-25-2010 at 11:01 AM..
chattypatty - You have to assume those doing the evaluation can do the job....and be an advocate to make sure an assessment is completed. The fact of the matter is that, while there must be an investigation and assessment, one must trust in the process. This goes on every day. Police investigate threats and come to some sort of conclusion. So do schools, so does CPS, so do psychologists, etc, etc. Most of the time the process works, if used properly. It is breakdowns in procedure, for the most part, that ends up = problems down the road.
If one does not trust the investigation and assessment process, then what? Go lock up/kick out every kid who has ever made a threat? And do what with them - these elementary kids who are making threats like this? Put them in prison? just like that, for speaking words? For a threat? Like it or not, this is the way society as a whole works. We don't lock people up without assessing the situation, without evaluating the actual threat level.
I am not at all making light of the threat in the OP. This is serious and warrants action - which is what I hope the school did - but since they didn't involve the victim's mother I think the process broke down. But if the process worked, then the kid perpetrator (of a THREAT, not an action) should be evaluated, watched, treated - I don't know, but whatever the assessment team came up with should have ameliorated the threat.
And yes, one potential result of an assessment is that the kid was blowing smoke. The end. Yes, intervention could include things like talking to the kid about what is appropriate. The more adults you have involved in his life, the better - that is what makes him less likely to carry out his threat.
However the difference between saying "I'm going to kill you" and saying "I'm going to kill you with this" or "like this" and show something that could be poison or brandishing a weapon of some sort is HUGE!
I think that is why some parents are concerned that what that bully did was much more than something kids will say in the heat of the moment. That bully showed premeditation in the fact that not only did he threaten the kid's life, but actually told him how he was going to do it and showed him what it was he was going to pour down his throat.
What everybody seems to be overlooking is the fact that boy never DID anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TouchOfWhimsy
NoExcuses, if the bully in question said "I'm going to kill you with this," and held up a knife, or a rope, or a gun, would you be so blase about the whole thing? Would you say, "boys will be boys... if he didn't actually stab/strangle/shoot you, what's the problem?"
You mean like when I would wield a baseball bat when I said I would kill my brother? Like when boys at school chase the girls with bugs or frogs and say they are going to make them eat the creatures?
My daughter used to get candy in a tube. It was blue powder. Colored sugar, really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TouchOfWhimsy
While I agree with most of your post, the bolded is simply blaming the victim. Maybe the kid speaks with a lisp or does not wear the latest fashions... does that really mean that it's okay for him to be bullied because he's "different"? Guess what? It's okay to be different. Everyone does not have to be a sheep or a clone, even though there is pressure to be like everyone else when you are in school. This is the BULLY'S fault, period. Not the kid's fault for being "different" in any way, shape, or form. Aren't schools all about teaching kids tolerance for every type of lifestyle out there, anyway? Are little boys with a slight "difference" exempt from the "everyone deserves respect" rule?
Personally, I think the bolded is a bunch of crap.
And I fail to see where empowering a bullied child is blaming the victim. Isn't empowering a child better than allowing the child to continue to feel like a victim? I'd rather my child know how to ward off a bully than to say things that would make her feel more of a victim than she really is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattypatty
... I abhor this "blame the victim" crap. It's about time we start blaming the perpetrator.
Plus no where has she indicated that her child gets picked on a lot or by other kids. It's this ONE psycho child who is the bully. Furthermore, no child schooled in martial arts would ever wear a badge indicating his level of skill. That would be seen as a challenge and is against the entire philosophy of martial arts. Gee whiz! Not to mention, I doubt a small boy is eager to become a road warrior no matter how much self defense training he has. Better to walk quietly and carry a big stick.
88texasaggie -- About that "middle road," while that sounds sensible, I still maintain that a kid who threatens to kill another child and has already elaborated on his method and weapon of choice is NOT NORMAL. This is extreme and calls for extreme responses.
You can assess the threat all you want to but in the end, never be comfortable with this kind of behavior. I mean, seriously, what are you going to do if the "experts" decide he was just blowing smoke? What then? Tell him not to say those things cause they're not nice things to say?
Aren't you overreacting just a little?
You think a little boy is a psycho child??? Good thing you aren't a judge. You are not capable of being discerning. You probably freak out when another child looks at yours funny.
My philosophy: Seek to change what you have the power to change; YOUR CHILD'S REACTIONS TO A BULLY. You cannot get rid of everybody else's kids because you have some kind of problem with them.
You cannot change the way someone else is raising their child. You CAN change the way you are raising yours.
... Until last night, when he told me the kid said if he ever told on him again he would pour poison down my son's throat, and then proceeded to show him a blue powder in a plastic tube. I have no idea what to think the blue powder was (candy, household cleaner, I didn't see it so who knows.)
My question is how involved should I get about these alleged threats? I want my son to be responsible for his actions and be able to take care of himself, but at the same time it is upsetting to hear of the threats and I don't know if waiting for something to actually happen before I step in is the best idea.
Any ideas or similar situations?
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpanda
..Threats like this are not to be taken lightly. Someone is threatening to kill your child...why are you acting like he got a spitball thrown at him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattypatty
88texasaggie -- About that "middle road," while that sounds sensible, I still maintain that a kid who threatens to kill another child and has already elaborated on his method and weapon of choice is NOT NORMAL. This is extreme and calls for extreme responses.
You can assess the threat all you want to but in the end, never be comfortable with this kind of behavior. I mean, seriously, what are you going to do if the "experts" decide he was just blowing smoke? What then? Tell him not to say those things cause they're not nice things to say?
Somehow this got morphed into alleged threats of pouring (alleged) poison down a throat to attempted murder.
And chatty, do you know what 'blowing smoke' means? Just that. There's no substance to it. It's just smoke. In this case, it's just talk. No substance. Nothing has happened except talk.
Somehow this got morphed into alleged threats of pouring (alleged) poison down a throat to attempted murder.
And chatty, do you know what 'blowing smoke' means? Just that. There's no substance to it. It's just smoke. In this case, it's just talk. No substance. Nothing has happened except talk.
But again, if it was an ALLEGED THREAT of shooting a gun (which is allegedly real) that the kid pulled out, I think you'd have a different take on this. Yes, the powder could have been candy. Or it could have been rat poison. Who knows? I'm assuming that you would not offer YOUR kid up to find out.
Regardless of what the substance was, the kid who was threatened is probably terrified to ride on the bus. Is that the way school is supposed to be? Feeling sick-to-your-stomach terrified to ride the bus?
And regardless of what the substance was, the bully is a punk who needs to be sat down sternly. Maybe nipping this in the bud when the brat is ten will prevent him from actually killing or beating someone when he's a teenager, and may keep him out of jail. Children need to be taught how to be have appropriately. Obviously this kid needs a few more lessons. If an adult acted in this way, the police would be called immediately. This kid should be prevented from becoming the adult who "doesn't know better."
Touch, My child knows how to handle bullies. She's been taught, so it wouldn't happen.
And as far as the 'terrified' part, the boy didn't even tell his mother for weeks. From what the OP said, he did not seem too terrified. He had been riding the bus. If you recall, there was a different incident on the bus with someone else. Again, just talking, no action.
About the bully being a punk, probably ending up killing and being in prison when he grows up? He will just as likely to become a doctor or lawyer. You can't judge a child like that. You don't know him nor his family. You don't know that he is bad at all.
As the adult part: Look at the threats all of you have been throwing around at the boy. To me that is much worse than two kids saying things to each other.
Have you NEVER said anything threatening to another child when you were young? Not a sister or brother or someone who annoyed you? Have you NEVER had any thoughts of ridding yourself of someone? NEVER???? You know you have. Everyone has.
As I said, you cannot change the boy who is bullying, all you can change is your own and how he thinks and acts.
Touch, My child knows how to handle bullies. She's been taught, so it wouldn't happen.
And as far as the 'terrified' part, the boy didn't even tell his mother for weeks. From what the OP said, he did not seem too terrified. He had been riding the bus. If you recall, there was a different incident on the bus with someone else. Again, just talking, no action.
About the bully being a punk, probably ending up killing and being in prison when he grows up? He will just as likely to become a doctor or lawyer. You can't judge a child like that. You don't know him nor his family. You don't know that he is bad at all.
As the adult part: Look at the threats all of you have been throwing around at the boy. To me that is much worse than two kids saying things to each other.
Have you NEVER said anything threatening to another child when you were young? Not a sister or brother or someone who annoyed you? Have you NEVER had any thoughts of ridding yourself of someone? NEVER???? You know you have. Everyone has.
As I said, you cannot change the boy who is bullying, all you can change is your own and how he thinks and acts.
I'm glad that your child knows how to handle bullies. If someone pulled a bag of poison out (or something that she believed to be poison), how is she going to handle it without getting an adult involved or "judging" the kid who is bullying her? How is the way she thinks going to protect her from a thug? Sorry, but if someone is threatening ME, then THEY are the one with the issue. I wouldn't try to sweet talk someone into "being nice" to me. Act inappropriately, I'll call the authorities on you. As has already been pointed out, this is not a case of a boy saying "poopy head" to a smaller child. It's threatening with a weapon, which may or may not be real. That's called terrorism.
There is also a big difference between saying to my brother, who I fought with as a child, "I'm going to kill you!" after finding him rummaging around in my drawers, and saying, completely unprovoked, and to a child whom I disliked to the point of bullying him every day on the bus, "I'm going to poison you," while holding out a bag of "poison." The first is normal sibling fighting. My own kids will fight like cats and dogs, then five minutes later will be snuggling on the couch reading a story together, or building a fort out of the couch cushions. A bully and the kid he's bullying don't have that sort of relationship.
If one of my kids had a problem with someone to the point of bringing a weapon to the park and threatening that kid with it, then I would, without a doubt, intervene and handle the situation with my child. I would not say, "meh, whatever," and shrug my shoulders. Doing so, IMO, is a formula for disaster when the bully-child grows up a little. Threaten a smaller child with a baggie of koolaid powder today, threaten another adult with a loaded gun later. Kids need to learn how to control their impulses, and to be taught right from wrong.
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