U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 03-14-2010, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Denver area
17,116 posts, read 12,436,862 times
Reputation: 19486

Advertisements

Many people have spouses that work 60+ hours a week (especially now) or travel quite a bit or are "on call". Having a spouse at home so that the household can effectively be run is important...not just in doing the vacuuming but in helping with homework and just bringing down the stress level so the spouse that is putting in long difficult hours can actually be a person and see his/her family on the downtime (not to mention sleeping and eating) without having to think about whether the bills are being paid or whether junior understands algebra or got his sports physical - or can drop everything and leave to respond to an issue at work without having to figure out how to accomodate children and other responsibilities....it contributes to the well being of the family as a whole....On the flip side of that you could ask the same thing about a wage earner...if something happened to them would it be "the end of the world?" - assuming one has life/disability insurance or sick leave...not really - there are plenty of ways that families as well as companies, figure out how life goes on without you....

Last edited by maciesmom; 03-14-2010 at 04:16 PM..
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-14-2010, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
22,304 posts, read 17,053,510 times
Reputation: 11752
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Many people have spouses that work 60+ hours a week (especially now) or travel quite a bit or are "on call". Having a spouse at home so that the household can effectively be run is important...not just in doing the vacuuming but in helping with homework and just bringing down the stress level so the spouse that is putting in long difficult hours can actually be a person and see his/her family on the downtime (not to mention sleeping and eating) without having to think about whether the bills are being paid or whether junior understands algebra or got his sports physical - or can drop everything and leave to respond to an issue at work without having to figure out how to accomodate children and other responsibilities....it contributes to the well being of the family as a whole....On the flip side of that you could ask the same thing about a wage earner...if something happened to them would it be "the end of the world?" - assuming one has life/disability insurance or sick leave...not really - there are plenty of ways that families as well as companies, figure out how life goes on without you....

I disagree. No matter how many hours you work, having a spouse at home doesn't make earning a living easier. It makes what you do at home easier. Having a spouse at home doesn't help you earn a living. It just means you don't have housework to do when you come home and you can accomplish that just as easily by hiring a housekeeper.

I, currently, work 60-80 hours a week without a spouse at home. The only thing affected is home. The dusting doesn't get done very often and floors usually are in need of mopping but life goes on.

No, it wouldn't be the end of the world if the wage earner lost a spouse at home. It would be the end of the world if the spouse at home lost the wage earners income. The spouse at home is replacable with cheap labor. The wage earner isn't. The spouse at home is SOL if they lose the wage earner and provisions were not made to replace their income.

As far as the company is concerned, whether or not the wage earner is replacable depends on what they did. There were people I used to work with who were not replacable. It would take years to groom someone else to step into their position IF they could find someone capable. They were well cared for.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2010, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Denver area
17,116 posts, read 12,436,862 times
Reputation: 19486
Quote:
I disagree. No matter how many hours you work, having a spouse at home doesn't make earning a living easier. It makes what you do at home easier. Having a spouse at home doesn't help you earn a living. It just means you don't have housework to do when you come home and you can accomplish that just as easily by hiring a housekeeper.
Again, you are assuming that all that spouse at home is responsible for are housekeeping duties....that may well be the case in your house but not in most. If the primary wage earner is not distracted by things (again they could be housekeeping duties or they could be arranging doctor appts, paying bills, managing investments helping with homework, volunteering in the community etc) then he/she is free to work extra (or expected) hours or be on call. It may not be the end of the world but it does certainly contribute to the quality of life - which in some families, is an important priority.


Pretty much anything in this life can be done by someone else (again, when you are talking about the actual task at hand not the interpersonal relationship that goes along with being a part of something). So why bother doing anything at all? You said you worked with people who were not replaceable, then went on to say it would take years....so in actuality they WERE replaceable, some positions it just might take longer than others. If that is what you are looking for and the only thing that will satisfy your quest, best of luck to you. I think it applies to very few people.

Last edited by maciesmom; 03-14-2010 at 07:03 PM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2010, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,459 posts, read 4,069,363 times
Reputation: 3393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I disagree. No matter how many hours you work, having a spouse at home doesn't make earning a living easier. It makes what you do at home easier. Having a spouse at home doesn't help you earn a living. It just means you don't have housework to do when you come home and you can accomplish that just as easily by hiring a housekeeper.
A housekeeper and a nanny who will care for a disabled adolescent (and her sibling) 18 hours a day and a personal shopper and a private tutor for said adolescent (or a 20 hour a week educational and behavioral specialist) and a personal chef and a resume service and an office manager. Oh yeah, an investment manager (thanks, Maciesmom). Probably some other stuff, too, but that's off the top of my head.
You seem to believe that those who disagree with you have never experienced paid work. In fact, I was employed most of my adult life, and a single parent for fifteen years. I know well which things slide, and which don't get done; I know well which do get done, but poorly. I know what it's like to leave meetings because a child is stranded, or to be in a situation where I cannot leave and have no one to pick up the pieces at the other end. If dh is at a job site in Hong Kong or Shanghai he can't very well drop all to negotiate the intricacies of a last minute problem with the occupational therapist. That's precisely why I'm home now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
The spouse at home is replacable with cheap labor. The wage earner isn't.
LOL! Only if the spouse at home isn't worth much to begin with.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2010, 07:57 PM
 
Location: The brown house on the cul de sac
2,081 posts, read 2,748,183 times
Reputation: 9269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Having a spouse at home doesn't help you earn a living. It just means you don't have housework to do when you come home and you can accomplish that just as easily by hiring a housekeeper.
My husband disagrees with you. I am a SAHM and he says I earn more of his paycheck than he does. He loves knowing everyone is taken care of at home while he can concentrate on his career.

By the way, why do you think all that SAHM's do is housework? Many days its the last priority on my list. Stop over at my house sometime and it may look like a bomb went off.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2010, 12:52 AM
 
43,246 posts, read 47,117,023 times
Reputation: 13697
I thnik that it really depends. But it certainly takes alot of oragnization and planning to both work and still get things down. Since i and my wife retired we bascially still organise and plann but it really easy compared to both working. Then you have to manage your life around your work and not the opposite. i know alot of people who couldn't beleieve the difference in management when they both started working. i know manya husabnd who had to learn that when he got home he hyas things to do other than just eat and realx on the couch.I know friends who went from housewife to working that had to learn to schedule things around their work schedule and get thing done when they had time and on scheduole to do it.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2010, 04:40 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
22,304 posts, read 17,053,510 times
Reputation: 11752
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Again, you are assuming that all that spouse at home is responsible for are housekeeping duties....that may well be the case in your house but not in most. If the primary wage earner is not distracted by things (again they could be housekeeping duties or they could be arranging doctor appts, paying bills, managing investments helping with homework, volunteering in the community etc) then he/she is free to work extra (or expected) hours or be on call. It may not be the end of the world but it does certainly contribute to the quality of life - which in some families, is an important priority.


Pretty much anything in this life can be done by someone else (again, when you are talking about the actual task at hand not the interpersonal relationship that goes along with being a part of something). So why bother doing anything at all? You said you worked with people who were not replaceable, then went on to say it would take years....so in actuality they WERE replaceable, some positions it just might take longer than others. If that is what you are looking for and the only thing that will satisfy your quest, best of luck to you. I think it applies to very few people.
This I believe is wrong. One parent does not get a get out of parenting pass while the other does all the parenting. If a job is resulting in not being able to do the things involved in taking care of life (non housework as that's really not here nor there since no one dies if it's not done), they're working too much and a spouse at home doing all of those things so they can work that much is an enabler. No offense but I look at people like you're describing and wonder why they even had kids. If you know you will need someone else to raise them for you because your job will prevent you from helping with homework, going to doctors appointments, volunteering in the community WITH your kids, etc, etc, etc... Why have kids? You're describing a paper doll family. Cute to look at but easy to pack into the closet when they're too much trouble to deal with.

One of the things that bothers me about my current situation and my driving force to change it is that the hours cut too much into family life. (Anyone who thinks teaching is a great profession when you have kids is either blind, not doing their job well or never tried it.) You can juggle a job and family but when you start needing someone else to raise your kids for you because you want to work so many hours you couldn't manage, it's time to find another job. Unless the job in question is some altruistic profession that is doing a greater good, I can't think of a justification for what you're describing here. You are describing a single parent household with a visiting paycheck. We do it out of necessity as we cannot do without my paycheck but if we could, I'd rather be unemployed than let someone else do all the parenting stuff. I wouldn't be married to someone who wanted life that way either.

As someone said on an other board, frequent parenting points are not transferrable between parents. I am not including parenting among the things a spouse at home would take care of for a working spouse. IMO, If it's come to that, it's time to reevaluate your priroties. I cannot see justifying SAH in order to ALLOW the other spouse to check out of parenting and thinking that's a good thing.

I'd much rather see two parents working two reasonable careers and sharing parenting duties than one enabling the other to work mega hours by taking over their parenting duties. Children have and need two parents. Not one and a paycheck. If what I did at home enabled my husband to work long hours, that is not something I'd say with pride if it involved him not being involved with the kids. I'd clean the entire house and make sure everything else was taken care of so he could spend the time he had with the kids but we'd be having some serious conversations if his job was interfering with doing things with the kids as mine is now. We'll do what we have to for as long as we have to but this situation will change. We will get back to two involved parents because that's what kids need.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2010, 07:15 AM
 
4,784 posts, read 8,028,482 times
Reputation: 3119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
The spouse at home is replacable with cheap labor. The wage earner isn't. The spouse at home is SOL if they lose the wage earner and provisions were not made to replace their income.
Well, as a SAHM, it would not be cheap to replace me!! My dh does usually work 60 hour weeks. I do all the housework, gift and household shopping, errands, manage three kids with all their needs, do a lot of taxiing, and I also do all the yard work including mowing our one acre property, gardening, painting the home both inside and out, staining the deck, rebuilding the front walk, tree trimming, paying the bills, scheduling appointments, volunteering in schools, etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
This I believe is wrong. One parent does not get a get out of parenting pass while the other does all the parenting. If a job is resulting in not being able to do the things involved in taking care of life (non housework as that's really not here nor there since no one dies if it's not done), they're working too much and a spouse at home doing all of those things so they can work that much is an enabler. No offense but I look at people like you're describing and wonder why they even had kids. If you know you will need someone else to raise them for you because your job will prevent you from helping with homework, going to doctors appointments, volunteering in the community WITH your kids, etc, etc, etc... Why have kids? You're describing a paper doll family. Cute to look at but easy to pack into the closet when they're too much trouble to deal with.
This is one of the rudest posts I have ever read on CD! Who are you to tell people they shouldn't have had children? Or that their way of life is wrong? That their parenting style is wrong? And that their working schedule is wrong? Not only that but in one breath you are saying it's wrong for "someone else to raise them", but then you are more than happy to drop them off at daycare with strangers?! Who better to "raise your children" than one of the parents? We are quite happy that I have been able to SAHM with all my children so that they never had to go to daycare, or come home to an empty house. Our routine has worked quite well for us. My dh is home every evening and spends time with us. From where I sit, you are the one with the issues. Frankly I think you are suffering depression, and you need to seek therapy!! For you to sit back and tell others that they are wrong and you are right is laughable, especially considering how miserable you are. Stop being so judgmental of others. Clearly your idea of family life and parenting hasn't worked for you, so don't knock others who are happy.

Last edited by andthentherewere3; 03-15-2010 at 07:26 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2010, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Denver area
17,116 posts, read 12,436,862 times
Reputation: 19486
A SAHM is giving the parent who works FT a parenting pass? I don't think so. That is the same attitude that working parents get upset (and rightly so) when people insist that daycare is raising your kids.....Parenting (as I would have assumed you knew) involves many many facets...there are some valid reasons for a parent to stay home at various points (many of which Aconite pointed out but interestingly enough you have chosen not to respond to...). I'm not going to rehash all that. You are obviously struggling in your life. I'm sorry that you are going through this and hope you find whatever it is that will be all important and fulfilling and that will help you kids feel the same.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2010, 10:03 AM
 
2,605 posts, read 2,643,749 times
Reputation: 2107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
. I, currently, work 60-80 hours a week without a spouse at home. The only thing affected is home. The dusting doesn't get done very often and floors usually are in need of mopping but life goes on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
This is why I left engineering for teaching. Looking for that sense of importance to what I did. As an engineer, all I could really say was I brought home a nice paycheck. Unfortunately, it turned out there is no need for math/science teachers so I can't find that sense of doing something that matters there either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
The problem with teaching is ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I will not go back and get the lower certifications. I thought about it but that runs counter to why I went into teaching.

I have looked into private and charter schools but the pay is so bad I can't stay in those jobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
As a full time teacher, I don't have time for a part time teaching job at night and a part time position teaching college won't pay the bills. I will, most likely, look into teaching night classes after I land a full time job that doesn't require me to take 80 hours a week of work home with me on a regular basis. As a chemistry teacher in a community college, I can still be part of raising the bar. I got my wings at a community college. I woudln't mind helping other students like I was get theirs.
How does a teacher work away from home for 60-80 hours week? You've already said you wouldn't stoop to community college level, and you don't have a PhD, so what does that leave? High school? Middle school?

And since you work 60-80 hours and week and are a single parent, you say all that doesn't get done at home is the dusting, what about your two kids? If you work 16 hour days, my guess is THAT IS WHY YOUR DAUGHTER DOESN'T FEEL A SENSE OF SELF WORTH.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top