U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-13-2012, 01:50 PM
 
8,012 posts, read 4,065,450 times
Reputation: 9565

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
I keep thinking about the kid I see at the bus stop every morning in jeans so short his ankles show. Yes, he's tall and skinny, and I know it can be hard to find pants that fit. With adjustable waist pants and every brand under the sun available locally, I don't know why his parents let him dress like that. These are people who who live in a very nice house and work in high paying professions. I don't think affordability is the issue.

My son wears glasses and is a little quirky I'm very mindful of his clothing not making him look nerdy. I'll always make sure his pants are long enough.
Honestly, that you judge the parents for the state of the kid's jeans is the more offensive, sticking your nose in the air that they "let them dress like that".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-13-2012, 02:23 PM
 
Location: here
17,028 posts, read 14,549,044 times
Reputation: 13926
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Honestly, that you judge the parents for the state of the kid's jeans is the more offensive, sticking your nose in the air that they "let them dress like that".
I feel sorry for the kid. His clothes don't fit. Other kids are mean. He'll be in middle school soon and could get bullied for something that is completely preventable. I don't see how thinking a parent should make sure their kid has clothes that fit makes me a snob. His ankles were exposed in freezing weather over the winter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2012, 02:30 PM
Status: "The Union forever! Down with the traitors." (set 22 days ago)
 
13,677 posts, read 17,587,858 times
Reputation: 11865
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I guess I don't agree that you get to decide for anyone else what "appropriate" is.
Well, appropriate really is more of a societal construct then it is any individuals personal feeling. Like the jeans at the funeral example, it's just not appropriate. It's not about expression or personal taste, it's about a certain expectation that people have. When you don't meet that expectation then you are opening yourself to ridicule.

I get your existential argument that it shouldn't matter, but reality is that it does and parents need to teach their children what these expectations of appropriateness are.

Quote:
I suppose if you repeat it enough, it must be so. But no, aside from the fact that if you wear heals, you walk funny
Fair enough, it doesn't matter to you, I imagine most would agree with what I was saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Honestly, that you judge the parents for the state of the kid's jeans is the more offensive, sticking your nose in the air that they "let them dress like that".
Judgement aside, which is what you seem to have the issue with, why does a parent let their kid go out of the house like that? Sure, some people don't have a choice, but when you do obviously have a choice, why would you let your kid walk around like that or let them believe that it's appropriate?

Everything else aside, I doubt that somebodynew's kids are going to school in jeans that are too short, attending funerals in cut-offs and going to formal restaurants in camo pants. You may not look down upon others who let their kids do those things, but you wouldn't let your's do them and that is kind of the point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2012, 02:35 PM
 
8,012 posts, read 4,065,450 times
Reputation: 9565
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
I get your existential argument that it shouldn't matter, but reality is that it does and parents need to teach their children what these expectations of appropriateness are.
That is not my argument at all. I never made that argument. I am saying that objective consequence is what it MEANS to matter. And in all cases described so far, there are no objective consequence, it really DOESN'T matter except in some folks heads.

Quote:
Judgement aside, which is what you seem to have the issue with, why does a parent let their kid go out of the house like that?
Well I guess I don't care to put judgement aside. That IS the issue.

Quote:
Sure, some people don't have a choice, but when you do obviously have a choice, why would you let your kid walk around like that or let them believe that it's appropriate?
Because they want to? Because it is their favorite pair of pants? Because, as was the case with my son, he decided to worry about clothes "next year". Whatever. Who cares.

Quote:
Everything else aside, I doubt that somebodynew's kids are going to school in jeans that are too short,
As a matter of fact, I just pointed out to my daughter this morning that her pants were too short. She did not care.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2012, 02:45 PM
 
Location: here
17,028 posts, read 14,549,044 times
Reputation: 13926
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
Well, appropriate really is more of a societal construct then it is any individuals personal feeling. Like the jeans at the funeral example, it's just not appropriate. It's not about expression or personal taste, it's about a certain expectation that people have. When you don't meet that expectation then you are opening yourself to ridicule.

I get your existential argument that it shouldn't matter, but reality is that it does and parents need to teach their children what these expectations of appropriateness are.



Fair enough, it doesn't matter to you, I imagine most would agree with what I was saying.



Judgement aside, which is what you seem to have the issue with, why does a parent let their kid go out of the house like that? Sure, some people don't have a choice, but when you do obviously have a choice, why would you let your kid walk around like that or let them believe that it's appropriate?

Everything else aside, I doubt that somebodynew's kids are going to school in jeans that are too short, attending funerals in cut-offs and going to formal restaurants in camo pants. You may not look down upon others who let their kids do those things, but you wouldn't let your's do them and that is kind of the point.
Yes, this. I somewhat agree that it "shouldn't" matter, but it does. Our kids will have to know how to dress for job interviews and for work and other things. Telling them "it doesn't matter" and having them show up for a job interview in ripped jeans is not doing them any favors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
That is not my argument at all. I never made that argument. I am saying that objective consequence is what it MEANS to matter. And in all cases described so far, there are no objective consequence, it really DOESN'T matter except in some folks heads.


Well I guess I don't care to put judgement aside. That IS the issue.


Because they want to? Because it is their favorite pair of pants? Because, as was the case with my son, he decided to worry about clothes "next year". Whatever. Who cares.


As a matter of fact, I just pointed out to my daughter this morning that her pants were too short. She did not care.
Why in the world would you point that out if is doesn't matter, and I'm a snob for having noticed the same thing about a kid?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2012, 02:48 PM
Status: "The Union forever! Down with the traitors." (set 22 days ago)
 
13,677 posts, read 17,587,858 times
Reputation: 11865
Quote:
That is not my argument at all. I never made that argument. I am saying that objective consequence is what it MEANS to matter. And in all cases described so far, there are no objective consequence, it really DOESN'T matter except in some folks heads.
Well the objective consequence is that if you don't meet the expectation of appropriate appearance; others will make judgements about you that are most likely completely baseless. Which brings us to...

Quote:
Well I guess I don't care to put judgement aside. That IS the issue.
You're right, I guess judgement really is the issue, the judgement of others and the conclusions that they will make. You may not care about what other people think at all; I suppose I do insofar as not allowing my appearance to serve as a method for people to pass judgement upon me and deny me opportunity or make assumptions about who I am.

It's like the really smart, hard working person who just happens to have purple hair, 20 piercings, sleeve tattoo's and dresses punk wondering why people never give them a chance and they can't find a job. Extreme example, but it applies in things as mundane as everyday dress. You may not care or want to acknowledge that people are constantly judging the "book by its cover" but they most certainly are.

Quote:
Because they want to? Because it is their favorite pair of pants? Because, as was the case with my son, he decided to worry about clothes "next year". Whatever. Who cares.
Other people. I will assume that your sons clothes are at least still nice and fit him reasonably well. He's not walking around in jeans two sizes too small and shirts that look like belly tops. I'm guessing that his shoes don't look like he wore them on a combat tour of Afghanistan. I'm guessing his hair is cut and reasonably styled. I'm guessing he maintains proper hygiene.

I get the impression that you think the discussion involves a bit of keeping up with the Jones' and impressing other people, it's not about that at all.

Quote:
As a matter of fact, I just pointed out to my daughter this morning that her pants were too short. She did not care.
Maybe she doesn't care right now, maybe she will when some of the girls start whispering that she's poor and can't afford new pants. Maybe she won't even care then, but I'm pretty sure that she does have appropriately fitting ones in her closet and at some point mom is going to make the pair that no longer fits disappear when it hits the laundry pile.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2012, 02:50 PM
 
8,012 posts, read 4,065,450 times
Reputation: 9565
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
You're right, I guess judgement really is the issue, the judgement of others and the conclusions that they will make.
I will continue to make the judgement myself that that is a really small minded thing to base a judgement on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2012, 02:55 PM
 
Location: here
17,028 posts, read 14,549,044 times
Reputation: 13926
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
Well the objective consequence is that if you don't meet the expectation of appropriate appearance; others will make judgements about you that are most likely completely baseless. Which brings us to...



You're right, I guess judgement really is the issue, the judgement of others and the conclusions that they will make. You may not care about what other people think at all; I suppose I do insofar as not allowing my appearance to serve as a method for people to pass judgement upon me and deny me opportunity or make assumptions about who I am.

It's like the really smart, hard working person who just happens to have purple hair, 20 piercings, sleeve tattoo's and dresses punk wondering why people never give them a chance and they can't find a job. Extreme example, but it applies in things as mundane as everyday dress. You may not care or want to acknowledge that people are constantly judging the "book by its cover" but they most certainly are.



Other people. I will assume that your sons clothes are at least still nice and fit him reasonably well. He's not walking around in jeans two sizes too small and shirts that look like belly tops. I'm guessing that his shoes don't look like he wore them on a combat tour of Afghanistan. I'm guessing his hair is cut and reasonably styled. I'm guessing he maintains proper hygiene.

I get the impression that you think the discussion involves a bit of keeping up with the Jones' and impressing other people, it's not about that at all.



Maybe she doesn't care right now, maybe she will when some of the girls start whispering that she's poor and can't afford new pants. Maybe she won't even care then, but I'm pretty sure that she does have appropriately fitting ones in her closet and at some point mom is going to make the pair that no longer fits disappear when it hits the laundry pile.
I certainly don't want to give the impression that I'm some kind of fassionista who spends a ton on my kids clothes. Not at all. We're very basic jeans and t-shirts people. I buy my kid's clothes on sale and second hand. They don't "dress up" to go to school. Nothing like that. I do make sure their clothes fit, aren't too worn out, their hair is combed and teeth brushed before we leave the house. When the seasons change, I make sure they have seasonal clothes that fit. If not, I get them something. This particular neighbor I noticed has been wearing the same too-short pants since last fall. I'm just wondering why.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2012, 03:02 PM
 
Location: here
17,028 posts, read 14,549,044 times
Reputation: 13926
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I will continue to make the judgement myself that that is a really small minded thing to base a judgement on.
What conclusion do you think I'm drawing based on the kid's pant length? I'm not assuming they are bad people, or that they can't afford new ones, or that they aren't worth talking to, or that I could never be friends with them. I'm merely wondering if they've noticed, and why they haven't bought the kid some pants that fit. The only conclusion I've drawn is that the parents don't care what his pants look like.

Definition of JUDGE
transitive verb
1
: to form an opinion about through careful weighing of evidence and testing of premises
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2012, 03:04 PM
Status: "The Union forever! Down with the traitors." (set 22 days ago)
 
13,677 posts, read 17,587,858 times
Reputation: 11865
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I will continue to make the judgement myself that that is a really small minded thing to base a judgement on.
It is, you are absolutely correct; but being a person that is not "small minded" doesn't alleviate one from the "small minded" people who make those judgements. Even then as in Kibbiekat's example not everyone is drawing universally negative conclusions or is really being small minded, it's just a curioisity as to why. Maybe the difference is that for some people appearance is important, for others it isn't. Still though, I think a parent owes it to their kid to teach them how to maintain their appearance and what is appropriate, even if the parent could care less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
I certainly don't want to give the impression that I'm some kind of fassionista who spends a ton on my kids clothes. Not at all. We're very basic jeans and t-shirts people. I buy my kid's clothes on sale and second hand. They don't "dress up" to go to school. Nothing like that. I do make sure their clothes fit, aren't too worn out, their hair is combed and teeth brushed before we leave the house. When the seasons change, I make sure they have seasonal clothes that fit. If not, I get them something. This particular neighbor I noticed has been wearing the same too-short pants since last fall. I'm just wondering why.
We are very much the same in terms of how we dress our kids. We splurge on a couple of pieces that are better than department store brand on occasion, but most of my kids clothes are bought on sale or are hand-me-downs among the girls. Still though, the clothes fit, they are clean, appropriate for the occasion or what we are doing and the kids themselves are clean, their hair is cut, etc. I just don't see why that is a bad thing or 'not important'.

As for the last part, it was the same with my example of my relatives kid in the nice restaurant. If it was a one time thing then, hey whatever, but the kid is ALWAYS dressed like that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:10 AM.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top