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I think the OP missed a great opportunity to teach her child about cause and effect - they broke a rule, they should've reaped the consequence of that - another child stole their toy.
It's almost laughable that the OP wanted the teacher to intervene and enforce one rule, but not the other. I get that most of society thinks that stealing is the "worse" crime, but so few parents seem to teach their children that the "worse" behavior of someone else does NOT justify their own poor behavior. These are the folks that make up juries in California - a man broke into someone's home, then found himself locked in the garage for 5 days with only dog food to sustain himself. The homeowner's knew the lock was broken, so the burglar got a $100k judgement for "cruel and unusual punishment" - as the jury felt that imprisoning someone for 5 days without water was the "worse" crime.
I believe the OP did the right thing. However, getting ahold of the teacher and making them aware of the situation is also great. This lets the teacher know what is going on and they may also be aware of other things that have come up missing. Say if 5 other kids had things go missing the teacher may have a better idea that there is a serious problem going on. Then they can make it a point more often to say to their class to remember not to bring toys to school and to keep valuables put up.
While this was just "a toy" there are other times that more valuable things go missing. Say a childs glasses. This has happened before when my daughter was at another school. Someone took another childs glasses out of her desk and hid them. THAT is not right and the parents of that child have every right to be upset and pissed off and to contact the school and have them look for them. Where do we draw the line of when is it okay to let the teachers know that things are getting stolen? I say for everything because it only gets worse if not nipped from the start.
I realize that the schools are not supposed to "search" thru backpacks and such but believe me THEY DO!!! Let a teachers wallet or cellphone come up missing and they WILL go thru the kids backpacks. My daughter had one little girl in her former school that was "stealing" things from the teacher all the time. The final straw was a credit card. The teachers did not have a place to put their purses locked up and the girl had stayed in from recess to do her work. When she had the chance and the monitor had left the room the girl got in the teachers purse and got it. When the teacher noticed it missing later that day she went thru the girls backpack the next day and found it. Even AFTER the school called the parents to tell them they did not even bother to come into the office as they had been requested to and talk to them. So going to the other parents is futile and I wouldn't do that unless I knew them very well and could get by with doing it as a friend in more of a questioning way and not accusing their child.
I am certainly not downplaying the fact that my child broke the rule. We know he broke a rule, and are disappointed in him for doing so. We've told him time and again not to do it, and he found out the hard way. In fact, because he broke the school rule he was held in for recess yesterday. However; it does not excuse another student going into another student's personal belongings for ANY REASON!
Yes the teacher needed to intervene because it happened in her classroom, on school property. Furthermore, if the little thief would have kept his hands to himself, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
To the previous poster, I certainly would not side with the burglar! He is lucky that the homeowner didn't put a bullet in his head!
Finally, my son has learned his lesson the hard way. We have to resort checking his book bag everyday, and if we find a toy in it there will be consequences. He knows this, and it will not be an issue again. Honestly, I want to punish my son for disobeying our rules, but my wife and I are at odds about it. As parents you have to be on the same page, and unfortunately in this instance, we are not. She feels that we can't punish him for something that he did two weeks ago. It is definitely not the way that I see it. Like I said, I was asking for opinions, I appreciate the responses, and my wife and I are trying to be the best we can be for our son, and are doing our best to raise him to be a productive citizen. Parenting is not easy by any means, but I can guarantee you, he certainly won't be the one stealing peoples personal belongings. Not on my watch!
I am certainly not downplaying the fact that my child broke the rule. We know he broke a rule, and are disappointed in him for doing so. We've told him time and again not to do it, and he found out the hard way. In fact, because he broke the school rule he was held in for recess yesterday. However; it does not excuse another student going into another student's personal belongings for ANY REASON!
Yes the teacher needed to intervene because it happened in her classroom, on school property. Furthermore, if the little thief would have kept his hands to himself, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
To the previous poster, I certainly would not side with the burglar! He is lucky that the homeowner didn't put a bullet in his head!
Finally, my son has learned his lesson the hard way. We have to resort checking his book bag everyday, and if we find a toy in it there will be consequences. He knows this, and it will not be an issue again. Honestly, I want to punish my son for disobeying our rules, but my wife and I are at odds about it. As parents you have to be on the same page, and unfortunately in this instance, we are not. She feels that we can't punish him for something that he did two weeks ago. It is definitely not the way that I see it. Like I said, I was asking for opinions, I appreciate the responses, and my wife and I are trying to be the best we can be for our son, and are doing our best to raise him to be a productive citizen. Parenting is not easy by any means, but I can guarantee you, he certainly won't be the one stealing peoples personal belongings. Not on my watch!
It is clear that you are trying very hard to raise a responsible child but still, you ARE downplaying your child's responsibility in this matter. Where is the correlating sentiment to the above bolded statement? Furthermore, if my son had obeyed the rules and left his toys at home, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
You can't help what other people do. You can't change it or even hold them accountable all the time. By teaching your son to FIRST AND FOREMOST consider his actions he will become responsible for them.
I can give you an example of how this has played out with our kids. They are less than 2 years apart in age and we've had our share of arguments between them. If they needed help settling something (or we determined they needed help) we would ask each of them "Tell me what is going on here."
Normally you would expect to hear....
Quote:
He took my bear and won't give it back!! -- She wasn't using the bear and I was just playing with it!!
She messed up my lego house!! -- Well he messed up my lego castle!!
He's in my room and I want to play by myself!! -- I let her play in my room yesterday!!
She won't let me use her zoo animals to play safari!! -- I'm using the zoo animals and he wants to take them!!
Nope, none of that flies with me. It's never only what the other person is doing and I want to hear what YOU are doing. It was harder and longer that way but they learned to really be responsible for their actions even when the other one was more at fault. The goal was to get to this point....
"Tell me what is going on here."
Quote:
I wanted to use her bear but I didn't ask . -- I yelled and tried to grab the bear.
I was angry that my lego castle was messed up so I smashed his house. -- I wasn't being careful and I broke her castle.
I wouldn't leave when she told me to get out of her room. -- I was angry that he was in my room so I yelled at him.
I wanted the zoo animals even though she is already using them. -- I didn't want to share the zoo animals.
Now, which do you think is an easier starting point for helping kids learn to resolve problems, settle (and PREVENT) arguments?
It doesn't matter if there is one guilty party or ten, when people own up to their own faults it's easier to reach a resolution.
If you want your son to really learn to take responsibility for his actions stop bringing up the other boy at all. It isn't relevant at all to what your son did.
My kids are teens now and if you think the squabbles end you are wrong. Add in friends, schoolmates, teachers, coaches, instructors (and us parents) and there are plenty of opportunities to point the finger elsewhere when something doesn't go your way. Fortunately, the time spent when they were younger is having a lasting effect and we don't get a lot of finger pointing and arguing. I'd say the result was well worth the time spent when they were younger and arguing about bears and legos.
OP, you are right that it isn't easy. Keep up the good work (but stop pointing fingers, lol).
The mistake that I think you made was in not punishing your child afterwards. He knew the school rule and he didn't listen to you or his mother about not taking the toys to school so he disobeyed the school and, most importantly, you. When I was that age, that warranted a week's grounding with not tv or toys or going outside to play (my parents really knew how to ground a guy). Nobody can tell you how to raise your child but, if what you're really trying to do is teach him a lesson, I think you failed.
When my daughter's doll was stolen, I remember taking away some TV time and giving her a good talking to, because she didn't take very good care of that doll. It was a birthday gift from her grandmother, and she took it to aftercare and left it lying on a table near her bookbag. As far as she can remember. Get what I'm saying? She was only 5, but she seemed to not sweat it much. Careless and taking things for granted. She was disciplined for that. Since I had allowed her to take something because I was unaware of the "rule," we didn't get into rule-breaking.
In the OP's case? Well, the theft would have been punishment enough for that. In this case, a good talking to about rules would have sufficed.
But what's wrong with society where we seem to be so obsessed with simple rules that we ignore the importance of thievery at a young age? I really don't mean to offend, but that what it's sounding like up in here. "But he broke the RULE." Okay, a rule about bringing a toy to school, just a weapon. Geez.
When my daughter's doll was stolen, I remember taking away some TV time and giving her a good talking to, because she didn't take very good care of that doll. It was a birthday gift from her grandmother, and she took it to aftercare and left it lying on a table near her bookbag. As far as she can remember. Get what I'm saying? She was only 5, but she seemed to not sweat it much. Careless and taking things for granted. She was disciplined for that. Since I had allowed her to take something because I was unaware of the "rule," we didn't get into rule-breaking.
In the OP's case? Well, the theft would have been punishment enough for that. In this case, a good talking to about rules would have sufficed.
But what's wrong with society where we seem to be so obsessed with simple rules that we ignore the importance of thievery at a young age? I really don't mean to offend, but that what it's sounding like up in here. "But he broke the RULE." Okay, a rule about bringing a toy to school, just a weapon. Geez.
Well, seeing as how the OP's main concern is his own child and not someone else's and seeing as how the OP and their spouse REPEATEDLY told their child not to bring the toys to school and the child still disobeyed, I think the boy should've been grounded. Not because I'm choosing to ignore the thievery of the other kid and not just because he broke a school rule by bringing the toys but because he DISOBEYED HIS PARENTS.
The other child's parents SHOULD be notified by the teacher just so they know what is going on. If and how THEY choose to discipline him is their concern.
I had a similar issue with one of my kids. Another kid at school in the 6th grade was bullying her. I went straight to the principle and told her that if this didn't get taken care of immediately I was going to tell my kid punch the kid out. The principal warned me about violence and I warned her I've already spoken with my attorney and she is drafting a notification of suit naming her and the do nothing teacher as well as the school district. Next day no issue. The parents even called to apologize. I really wanted my kid to be able to punch that punk out though.
I asked my son whether he spoke to the teacher about this, and he said that he did not, because he was afraid that he would go to the office, because they were told not to bring toys to school, as they could get lost or stolen.
This is where I would have done something differently. I would not have stepped in and done anything until my child had exhausted all of his options - and going to the teacher himself would have been the main one I would have told him he should do - and if the consequence was that he went to the office then so be it. But he would have been handling it on his own. And the other boy's stealing would have come to light. If it had been my son and he hadn't been willing to do that, then oh well - guess he doesn't get his toys back.
One of the most valuable lessons you can teach your children is to handle their own problems whenever possible.
Was stealing on the other kids part okay? Absolutely not. But as your son gets older you'll realize you can't be the police for everyone else's kids - trust me, having a 16 year old, you hear lots of stories that make you shake your head.
I've been in early childhood education for 20 years and can say without a doubt that many many children walk off with toys that do not belong to them. However, that does NOT mean they were stolen in all cases. So think about that and ask the right questions to find out.
Some kids are indeed stealing toys, fully aware they are taking something that does not belong to them.
Some kids are 'borrowing' them, not truly understanding they are not theirs to take and playing with them as if they were theirs.
Some kids are given toys by other kids who don't understand they won't get them back.
Some toys are traded to kids for other things.
Some toys are abandoned or forgotten and then found and claimed by other kids.
Based on experience, I'd have to say that in the case of the OP these toys weren't likely stolen with malice, or the toys would have never been left in the boys desk. He would have taken them home and they would never be seen again.
If the other boy wouldn't give them back, there's a good chance the OP's son gave them to the boy originally or traded them for something else.
Of course it is possible the boy did indeed take them, I just want to make the point that it is not the only possible explanation.
I think the OP missed a great opportunity to teach her child about cause and effect - they broke a rule, they should've reaped the consequence of that - another child stole their toy.
It's almost laughable that the OP wanted the teacher to intervene and enforce one rule, but not the other. I get that most of society thinks that stealing is the "worse" crime, but so few parents seem to teach their children that the "worse" behavior of someone else does NOT justify their own poor behavior. These are the folks that make up juries in California - a man broke into someone's home, then found himself locked in the garage for 5 days with only dog food to sustain himself. The homeowner's knew the lock was broken, so the burglar got a $100k judgement for "cruel and unusual punishment" - as the jury felt that imprisoning someone for 5 days without water was the "worse" crime.
I have been thinking about this and there are several things going on in this thread.
The first thing is a debate about whether stealing is a worse crime than bringing a toy to school.
Another topic is the cause and effect noted above and in many other posts. My child learned this as a result of that and so on.
My concern is this. Should our kids learn consequences as a result of their actions or should they obey their parents and teachers and others in authority. To me the down side of letting them learn by consequences is that firstly, something bad has to happen to them in order for them to learn OR they themsleves have to do something bad and then see the negative consequences. Do we extend that from taking a toy to school (against the rules) when you are 6 to taking a knife to school when you are 10 or gun when you are 16?
To me, we all have to learn to obey the rules, not because we have personal experience of what happens when we break the rules but because we are a part of the society. If we don't like the rules, then we can campaign against them, we can get into politics, form a movement or whatever. BUT until the rule is changed, we should obey it simply because That Is The Rule
I still stand by my original posting, (although I agree that it was quite harshly written and I do apoligise if the OP took offence as it was not intended to hurt). I do stand by the statement that what the kid learned was that he could disobey his parents if he felt like it.
I believe that this is a real problem in society today.Kids no longer respect teachers, parents, police etc. We get caught up in long burocratic processes dealing with discipline and rights and letting little Jonny feel good that we forget about Honor, Responsibility, Respect, Behaviour and so on.
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