Pa. hopes to shame taxpayers into paying up (Harrisburg, Monroe: for sale, credit card)

[JamMan]

August 16, 2010

HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) — State officials hope a little embarrassment will bring in a lot of overdue tax revenue.

Read entire article here at: Pa. hopes to shame taxpayers into paying up | PoconoRecord.com

What is wrong with the state? If these people and businesses have not paid their taxes, throw them in jail...then watch how fast they come up with the money. Hey, we're talking about 233,000,000. Go after the deadbeats with a stick...not a listing on a website.

[fisheye]

JamMan,
Have you noticed the little tax sale notices popping up on the sides of our roads? I know that they do this in Monroe; I don’t know about the other counties? It is only a stiff wire sticking out the ground with a approximately 6 X 9 inch notice. I think that it has a little green stripe around one side.
I follow these a little. However; I have not gone to the sale on the 15th of September. Many times; the delinquent property owners will pay before the sale. What I don’t understand is why they wait until right before the sale? There has to be hefty penalties. Then, the next year, you will see the same names on the list. I think that you only make the list if you are two years delinquent?
Here is a link to the 2408 properties on the list in Monroe: http://www.co.monroe.pa.us/tax%20claim/upset.aspx

[JamMan]

fisheye,
I got a server error when I tried that link you gave. I'll try it again later when I get home from work.

[fisheye]

JamMan,
Try this link: http://www.co.monroe.pa.us/planning_records/cwp/view.asp?a=1569&Q=606322&planning_recordsNav=|3444 6|
Then click on the place to see the list. I also could not open my link. I hope the above link works. You can just Google in Monroe County upset tax sale.

[fisheye]

JamMan,
The link I just posted does work and then you just have to click on the upset tax sale list. That will give you a list of the 2408 properties.
Look at the side of your local roads to see if you can spot any of the tax sale notices on local properties.
I wish they would not move threads so quick.

[fisheye]

JamMan,
I don’t know if you still followed the thread? I just wanted to point out, if you hit on my newest link, that PennHills owes over a million on our local property tax list. Your original article was about State taxes owed. When you start adding up everything that is owed by everybody the figure is staggering.

[Honest Bob]

You have to be 3 years delinquent on your taxes before they put your name in the paper.

Due to the fact that the jails are already over crowded and due to the fact that there is nothing in the law that demands that you pay your taxes, there is no way to enforce the tax law. What you need to realize is that the state / county etc will give you one opportunity to pay the taxes, even if it is on a payment plan and then they will list your property for sale by the county or state.

The problem with tax sales is that most people who owes taxes also owes other institutions. Lets say they have a mortgauge that they have not been paying on, a lien on the property for unpaid bills, credit card debt, etc.
You come along, all fat, dumb and happy and buy the place for a couple of thousand that the owner owes and the next thing you know, you get a pile of unpaid bills in the mail - which you must pay to get a free and clear deed to the place. Sometimes the bills are worth several times more then what the property is worth.

So it isn't just as simple as going to a tax sale and buying up property's that has not paid their taxes. It takes a very shrewd person that has connections, where they can do a background check, credit check etc to know which propertys were - lets say - a person that died, that did not have anyone to leave their stuff to, that paid their bills on time all their life and does not owe anyone anything.

In this distressed market, it is not uncommon to see 1/10th of all the property's in a county on the tax list. Chances are, if they can't make the house payment, they aren't going to make the tax payment either.
They are the ones that don't answer the telephone until the answering machine picks it up first, because they are screening their calls to avoid the bill collectors. That is if the phone still works and they gave the right number.

Many people will walk away from a property when they can no longer pay the bills and they think that the bank will have to pay all that because the bank does not like to loose money. Well that was one of the things that got our country into the shape that it is in today. Bankers writing out loans, just so they can get a commission and people buying McMansions - just so they can look like a big shot for a while.

If a person is truly broke, all the time in the world in jail isn't going to make them come up with the money. Maybe their family members or employers could bail them out of jail, if they needed them at home bad enough, but if you don't have it - you don't have it. That's something that a person that has a 9-5 job that pays good money cannot understand. If you have never had to do without - you could not put yourself in the shoes of someone who has.

Many people can afford the house payment, but cannot afford the taxes.
They don't realize that until they buy the house and get in a bind and find out that the market has collapsed and their house is now only worth half as much as what they thought it was. Yet at the same time, the taxes were based on a study done 5, 10 or 20 years ago when things were much better. So basically the taxes are as much as or more then the house payment and they can't afford to pay either. Someone gets sick, you loose your job, your company downsizes and asks you to take a pay cut to keep your job, someone dies that is the principal provider etc... Your wife gets pregnant and cannot go to work, your car breaks down and you do not have the money set aside for another one. People never looks ahead.
All they see is today and the good times and they don't realize that things can turn to crap in a blink of a eye.

How do you punish people like this? Throw them in JAIL?
Come on now - even I am not that cruel.

[fisheye]

Honest Bob,
Last year I was going to go to the September tax sale. I had a property in mind that I was interested in buying. I contacted a local agency that told me they would do the credit/background check and let me know the incumbencies against the individual. They also told me they would prefer three days but could do it in less time. I think that they told me it would cost $50 to $100 dollars. I held off until the sale got close and then the property was removed from the list. The property is back on the list this year. It is still a gamble as you pointed out.
I did not suggest to lock up delinquent taxpayers. We do not have enough cells for hardened criminals. It would be just another bill for the taxpayers.
What we do need is to get these taxes paid or as much as can be recovered. Our counties could help interested buyers by putting more information online. It isn’t too easy to locate some of the properties without physically going to the county courthouse.