Why do Pennsylvania citizens put up with their alcohol laws! (Erie: taxes, restaurant)

[Craziaskowboi]

The reason is former Governor Gifford Pinchot. He was an ardent Prohibitionist who was the Governor of Pennsylvania when the Constitution was amended to repeal Prohibition, and he is solely responsible for Pennsylvania's alcohol laws.

Here's the Wikipedia article on Gifford Pinchot.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

When Prohibition was nationally repealed in 1933, and four days before the sale of alcohol became legal in Pennsylvania again, Pinchot called the Pennsylvania General Assembly into special session to debate regulations regarding the manufacture and sale of alcohol; this session led to the establishment of the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board and its system of state-run liquor stores, reflecting Pinchot's desire to "discourage the purchase of alcoholic beverages by making it as inconvenient and expensive as possible."

And here's the Wikipedia article on the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board, plus an interesting quote from former Governor Richard Thornburgh:

Originally Posted by Richard Thornburgh

"The principal roadblock to reform has traditionally been an odd coalition of state store employee unions, fundamentalist anti-alcohol groups, and organizations such as Mothers Against Drunk Driving, all of which perceive that they have legitimate interests which are not susceptible to statewide budgetary considerations. It would take some courageous leadership to stare down this combination, something I do not see in the Commonwealth today."

The only reason Pennsylvania's alcohol laws remain the way they are is because special-interest groups have more political will than the general public -- a problem that's in no way exclusive to Pennsylvania, I might add.

[Ohiogirl81]

All the Quakers I know can drink me under the table.

[quiet life]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

Well if Tom Corbett is a man of his word, then the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board is in for some Hell.

He is going to be like the rest of the administrations. All lip service. As far as high paid PLCB clerks, they start out at 11 bucks an hour. Not a good living but it is a state job.

On another note, I had to go to NJ yesterday for business. An excuse to make my Heinken pick-up. I kept that extra 8 bucks i saved from the loan sharks at PLCB.

[ker8]

Why does it matter? I've been in PA, OH, and MD. OH by far has the most lax rules about alcohol of the three and I see it's convienence, but I don't see it's purpose. MD is basically the same as PA, except the separate stores are privately owned instead of government owned.

As someone who once worked at a grocery store, I was grateful I didn't have to worry about watching kids to make sure they didn't steal alcohol or try to buy it underage.

[pcity]

Originally Posted by ker8

Why does it matter? I've been in PA, OH, and MD. OH by far has the most lax rules about alcohol of the three and I see it's convienence, but I don't see it's purpose.

I'm guessing you've never bought multiple different types of alcohol for a party? Fairly convenient in all states, except for PA. The "purpose" of the "lax" rules is to not treat all your citizens like babies and/or criminals.

MD is basically the same as PA, except the separate stores are privately owned instead of government owned.

No. MD stores have every type of alcohol under one roof. If I want a 6-pack, a case of beer, and a bottle of wine, that's 3 different stores in PA. It's all at one store in MD. Obviously wine/beer in supermarkets is more convenient, but I'll take the MD model (same for NJ and DE) over PA any day. There's a reason people risk prosecution by going over the state lines to purchase alcohol. More competition= lower prices, and lower prices and more convenience is a better shopping experience.

[ker8]

Originally Posted by pcity

I'm guessing you've never bought multiple different types of alcohol for a party? Fairly convenient in all states, except for PA. The "purpose" of the "lax" rules is to not treat all your citizens like babies and/or criminals.



No. MD stores have every type of alcohol under one roof. If I want a 6-pack, a case of beer, and a bottle of wine, that's 3 different stores in PA. It's all at one store in MD. Obviously wine/beer in supermarkets is more convenient, but I'll take the MD model (same for NJ and DE) over PA any day. There's a reason people risk prosecution by going over the state lines to purchase alcohol. More competition= lower prices, and lower prices and more convenience is a better shopping experience.

Yes, I have, but it doesn't seem inconvienent. At least where I've lived the beer distributor was right across the street from the State store, which was right next to the grocery store. Sure, 3 stops, but it's not like you have to drive all over town to pick things up.

And you're right about the MD thing.

And 6-pack's are a waste of money. Usually they're insanely priced compared to what you'd pay for an entire case of beer.

[North Beach Person]

I don't know where you guys are getting that MD prices are lower than PA prices. Maybe right across the Mason-Dixon but in SoMD, where I am, the prices for everything alcohol are 20% or more higher.


Had a rum and coke last night at a bar-rail rum, nothing fancy. $4.50. The same drink in my favorite bar (larger tumbler, too)- $2.00.

[pcity]

Originally Posted by ker8

And 6-pack's are a waste of money. Usually they're insanely priced compared to what you'd pay for an entire case of beer.

In PA, definitely. But in VA, the case is usually only a few bucks more than 4 six-packs.

And cases only work if everyone wants to drink the same thing all night. If you want a variety of beers, it's hard to buy by the case. Plus there's a big risk if you want to try something new you're not sure you'll like, and you buy a whole case of it.

This is a big reason why Dick Yuengling likes the beer distributor system. It keeps Pennsylvanians buying cases of what they know and makes it more expensive to try a six-pack of something new.

[pcity]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

I don't know where you guys are getting that MD prices are lower than PA prices. Maybe right across the Mason-Dixon but in SoMD, where I am, the prices for everything alcohol are 20% or more higher.


Had a rum and coke last night at a bar-rail rum, nothing fancy. $4.50. The same drink in my favorite bar (larger tumbler, too)- $2.00.

Bar prices are definitely cheaper in PA, but that's a market where the state allows a lot of competition. It's the retail market where PA residents suffer.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by pcity

Bar prices are definitely cheaper in PA, but that's a market where the state allows a lot of competition. It's the retail market where PA residents suffer.

Retail's the same. Again, I'm 2 hours from the border so that may play into it.