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Old 11-08-2010, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,662 posts, read 16,263,965 times
Reputation: 14567

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Honest Bob,

In any competitive sport you have to have rules and you have to be fair. Unfortunately; I do not see anybody representing our deer. I remember in the 1950’s and 1960’s that our GC would suspend doe season when the counts went too low. Back then, our GC would encourage us to take hay into the deep woods during harsh winters. Today; deer have too many enemies - our GC, sporting retailers, motorist, coyotes, competing turkeys, farmers, home owners, landscapers, insurance companies, the timber industry and hunters that think it is just another game to win.

I had a chance to talk to the head of the GC about the time that we first heard of mad cow disease. I had asked him what the GC would do if they found deer with the disease. Without blinking an eye; he told me that they would have to eliminate the deer (not just quarantine and area and cut out the infected herd). I was thinking, to myself, that these are the people that we chose to protect our wildlife! To me; it sounded more like our GC was looking for any excuse to reduce the herds. That was long before Dr. Alt. Anyway, with or without mad cow; it is still playing out as if that is their goal.

I agree with you about hot spots changing over night. I used to see plenty of deer coming off the last hill before the flats and crossing into NY on I 84. That changed in only one or two seasons. In many cases; I think it is a combination of factors such as: coyotes chasing our deer onto roads that have more vehicles. Or, hunters go into the deep woods on quads and chase deer, (that have never been chased) into coyotes/other hunters/or roads. Nobody has ever studied how today’s reality truly interacts with our deer population.

I would still like to know where they get their numbers for estimated deer populations? What they report and what we see are entirely different.
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Old 11-08-2010, 10:47 AM
 
457 posts, read 1,228,875 times
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The deer aren't stupid. They have simply relocated to the cities because it is safer. I see them all the time.
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Old 11-08-2010, 11:21 AM
 
996 posts, read 977,672 times
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Bob - I agree that the herd numbers are reduced, but IMO it is a good thing and I provided the reasons in my earlier post- especially the benefits of the AR program and habitat renewal.

Sounds like you have quite a bit of illegal activity in some of the areas you noted, whether it be illegal access via ATV (none are allowed on state game lands without special HC permit), trespassing, and poaching.

One area I occaisionally visit is the Forksville area in Sullivan County - near World's End State park. The area had been poached clean of deer - and the locals readily admit it... Darn shame.

I don't blame private property owners for posting their land. Matter of fact - posting is not even required - interlopers are still breaking the law.
I found a tree stand on my land two years ago. I removed it, called the local ECO and gave it to him. I left a note on the tree explaining where the stand went to and they could get it back if they called the ECO and were willing to pay a $300 trespassing fine as I would press charges.

I also noted that if they took the time to drive to my house and ask permission I would have considered letting them hunt my land.

Funny thing - no one ever claimed it.

I am seeing plenty of scrapes and rubs in my area. I think conditions vary widely by area.

As far as slobs, I agree. I spend alot of time on State Game lands - mostly hunting for yotes. On almost every trip this time of year I come home with a pocketfull of surveyor tape or tacks that were stuck in trees to mark a trail or spot. I laugh when I remove the trash and wonder what in the world will the "Ticker-tape parade" folks do now... LOL
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Old 11-08-2010, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Hooterville PA
712 posts, read 1,849,741 times
Reputation: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
Honest Bob,

In any competitive sport you have to have rules and you have to be fair. Unfortunately; I do not see anybody representing our deer. I remember in the 1950’s and 1960’s that our GC would suspend doe season when the counts went too low. Back then, our GC would encourage us to take hay into the deep woods during harsh winters. Today; deer have too many enemies - our GC, sporting retailers, motorist, coyotes, competing turkeys, farmers, home owners, landscapers, insurance companies, the timber industry and hunters that think it is just another game to win.

I had a chance to talk to the head of the GC about the time that we first heard of mad cow disease. I had asked him what the GC would do if they found deer with the disease. Without blinking an eye; he told me that they would have to eliminate the deer (not just quarantine and area and cut out the infected herd). I was thinking, to myself, that these are the people that we chose to protect our wildlife! To me; it sounded more like our GC was looking for any excuse to reduce the herds. That was long before Dr. Alt. Anyway, with or without mad cow; it is still playing out as if that is their goal.

I agree with you about hot spots changing over night. I used to see plenty of deer coming off the last hill before the flats and crossing into NY on I 84. That changed in only one or two seasons. In many cases; I think it is a combination of factors such as: coyotes chasing our deer onto roads that have more vehicles. Or, hunters go into the deep woods on quads and chase deer, (that have never been chased) into coyotes/other hunters/or roads. Nobody has ever studied how today’s reality truly interacts with our deer population.

I would still like to know where they get their numbers for estimated deer populations? What they report and what we see are entirely different.
In Punxsutawney PA, there is a dentist that is a avid outdoorsman - his name is Jon Johnson.
In his office, he has gun magazines in the waiting area - not something that is common in most doctors offices.
He owns a bird dog and is very interested in finding a place where he can train his dog in the off season and where there is a huntable population of birds in season.

Because of his status in the community, he knows everyone and he has access to areas that most people are turned away from.

The other day, while I was in his office, I told him that he could feel free to call me anytime and I will take him on a walking tour of our Game Lands.
When I started to describe to him the roads and where things were located - he looked at me in amazement when I started to tell him about the food plots or the corn crib. He looked at me as if I was from another planet when I told him that they planted crops in the Game Lands in the 50's, 60's and 70's and that they picked the corn in the food plots and stored it in the corn cribs and that they fed the game in the hard winters.
Maybe some people can remember the sportsmen on the television - maybe it was channel 2 or channel 4 out of Pittsburgh that would take up a donation where they would fly in food to the deer in the woods with a helicopter and people would donate corn and hay for the animals.

I had to explain to him that the deer we have here today were transplanted from Michigan and other places and that our herd was decimated at one time - to the point of where there were no deer left and that there was not a season for a long time and that there was no doe season for a long time. All the deer we had were a result of sportsmen grouping together to bring the deer back.

There was never a reason to shoot more then 2 deer per a year and ultimately not more then one deer per a year.
Human encroachment - urban sprawl, people building houses in the woods is what caused the deer to be displaced and the fact that there is almost triple the amount of vehicles on the road today as compared to 1970.
It is no wonder we were having so many conflicts between vehicles and animals when there was a 2 to 1 ratio of deer to people in the northern tier counties.

None of this justified the fact that the PGC is broke and that the PGC moved the Game School to Harrisburg to have it closer to the lawmakers.
After all - if you are a big shot - you don't want to have to make a trip to Brockway PA = every time you want to check and see how your new recruits are doing. The money that the PGC wasted could have been put to better use here - with food and cover corps programs and with stocking programs and with improvements to the food plots and with less timber and mineral extraction programs taking place in our game lands.

The woods are no longer here for us to use, it is here for the PGC to use.
It is no longer managed to promote a healthy deer population, it is managed to grow timber - and drill gas wells - so the PGC can support itself. The roads are not built so the sportsmen can get in and out of the woods, they are built so the drilling rigs and the logging trucks can get back into the woods so they can harvest the timber and drill the wells so the PGC can get the royalties.

If I was rich and all I cared about was shooting one trophy buck every 5 or 10 years, then I would be as happy as the butchers dog with the way that the antler restriction has turned out so far.
But if I was poor and did not own any land of my own and did not have any access to private lands and had to utilize the Game Lands for all my hunting needs, then it wouldn't be very long until I quit hunting and quit buying a license also = because I would be very disappointed if I walked into the woods where I hunted for 40 years and found nothing but tree stumps. or if I walked into the food plot and found nothing growing except weeds. Or if the land manager told me last year that they were there because they were going to permit the gas company to build a very small pipe line though a insignificant portion of the Game Lands and the next year I came back and found out that they lied to me and that they did not build any pipe line - but was opening the roads so they could log 50 acres of woods where I hunted. Nobody likes being lied to. Let alone over and over again.

You give me access to all land in Pennsylvania - posted or open and let me roam the woods and I will guarantee you that I will write no less then one citation per a day for archery hunters - hunting over bait.
I will guarantee you that I will find one illegal activity per every township in every county (67) in Pennsylvania that offers the opportunity to hunt.
The only reason why I am not a Game Warden right now - is because I have been in trouble in the past and I once lost my license for a year for hunting in a safety zone and paying the fine instead of pleading not guilty and fighting it in court - just like Ted Nugent is going through right now.

Outlaws makes the best Game Wardens - because they have already thought of more ways to break the law then the Game Wardens has ways of catching them.
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,662 posts, read 16,263,965 times
Reputation: 14567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honest Bob View Post
In Punxsutawney PA, there is a dentist that is a avid outdoorsman - his name is Jon Johnson.
In his office, he has gun magazines in the waiting area - not something that is common in most doctors offices.
He owns a bird dog and is very interested in finding a place where he can train his dog in the off season and where there is a huntable population of birds in season.

Because of his status in the community, he knows everyone and he has access to areas that most people are turned away from.

The other day, while I was in his office, I told him that he could feel free to call me anytime and I will take him on a walking tour of our Game Lands.
When I started to describe to him the roads and where things were located - he looked at me in amazement when I started to tell him about the food plots or the corn crib. He looked at me as if I was from another planet when I told him that they planted crops in the Game Lands in the 50's, 60's and 70's and that they picked the corn in the food plots and stored it in the corn cribs and that they fed the game in the hard winters.
Maybe some people can remember the sportsmen on the television - maybe it was channel 2 or channel 4 out of Pittsburgh that would take up a donation where they would fly in food to the deer in the woods with a helicopter and people would donate corn and hay for the animals.

I had to explain to him that the deer we have here today were transplanted from Michigan and other places and that our herd was decimated at one time - to the point of where there were no deer left and that there was not a season for a long time and that there was no doe season for a long time. All the deer we had were a result of sportsmen grouping together to bring the deer back.

There was never a reason to shoot more then 2 deer per a year and ultimately not more then one deer per a year.
Human encroachment - urban sprawl, people building houses in the woods is what caused the deer to be displaced and the fact that there is almost triple the amount of vehicles on the road today as compared to 1970.
It is no wonder we were having so many conflicts between vehicles and animals when there was a 2 to 1 ratio of deer to people in the northern tier counties.

None of this justified the fact that the PGC is broke and that the PGC moved the Game School to Harrisburg to have it closer to the lawmakers.
After all - if you are a big shot - you don't want to have to make a trip to Brockway PA = every time you want to check and see how your new recruits are doing. The money that the PGC wasted could have been put to better use here - with food and cover corps programs and with stocking programs and with improvements to the food plots and with less timber and mineral extraction programs taking place in our game lands.

The woods are no longer here for us to use, it is here for the PGC to use.
It is no longer managed to promote a healthy deer population, it is managed to grow timber - and drill gas wells - so the PGC can support itself. The roads are not built so the sportsmen can get in and out of the woods, they are built so the drilling rigs and the logging trucks can get back into the woods so they can harvest the timber and drill the wells so the PGC can get the royalties.

If I was rich and all I cared about was shooting one trophy buck every 5 or 10 years, then I would be as happy as the butchers dog with the way that the antler restriction has turned out so far.
But if I was poor and did not own any land of my own and did not have any access to private lands and had to utilize the Game Lands for all my hunting needs, then it wouldn't be very long until I quit hunting and quit buying a license also = because I would be very disappointed if I walked into the woods where I hunted for 40 years and found nothing but tree stumps. or if I walked into the food plot and found nothing growing except weeds. Or if the land manager told me last year that they were there because they were going to permit the gas company to build a very small pipe line though a insignificant portion of the Game Lands and the next year I came back and found out that they lied to me and that they did not build any pipe line - but was opening the roads so they could log 50 acres of woods where I hunted. Nobody likes being lied to. Let alone over and over again.

You give me access to all land in Pennsylvania - posted or open and let me roam the woods and I will guarantee you that I will write no less then one citation per a day for archery hunters - hunting over bait.
I will guarantee you that I will find one illegal activity per every township in every county (67) in Pennsylvania that offers the opportunity to hunt.
The only reason why I am not a Game Warden right now - is because I have been in trouble in the past and I once lost my license for a year for hunting in a safety zone and paying the fine instead of pleading not guilty and fighting it in court - just like Ted Nugent is going through right now.

Outlaws makes the best Game Wardens - because they have already thought of more ways to break the law then the Game Wardens has ways of catching them.
Honest Bob,

The old GC used to ask us to find clumps of maple trees and partially cut two thirds of them and push them over. The idea was to keep a flap of bark on one side. The maples would grow for years - thus; allowing deer to browse the tops. Our camp does that today - we just don’t have any deer to browse the tops.

We did have some very harsh winters thirty/forty/fifty years ago. Deer were still very plentiful - even when our GC canceled doe because they felt the numbers were too low. I do think that the accumulative effects of acid rain hurt our vegetation - which we then blamed on the deer.

What does your dentist think of our deer herds? You said that he talks and knows everybody. That is what I am interested in - confirmation that my area is not alone.
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Old 11-09-2010, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Hooterville PA
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The winter that we had last year was one of the harshest winters that we have on record.
The phenomenon that occurred was unique because the central part of Pennsylvania did not receive as much snow as did the southern portion.
I believe that this can all be explained by the WTAJ weather blog or by personally talking with Joe Murgo - head meteorologist, who was once the head meteorologist for Accu Weather in State College.
If you talk to Dick Bodenhorn - which is a Game Warden in a northern tier county - Elk, he will tell you that the winter kill ratio was very high last winter in the Northern Counties - due to all the snow.
They had waist deep snow in Kane and Bradford last year in Bear season, which lead to a record kill, the people that I met said that there was a bear in every pick up truck and that there was a 3 hour wait, up in Kane - just to get in the Bear Check Station and that there was almost as many bears harvested in the Marionville area as up near Kane.

Anytime you start seeing a large population of a animal that you do not normally see, there has to be a reason. The reason is because the animals that normally ate the food in the woods - the deer, were not there anymore and are being replaced by Turkeys and Bears.

Truthfully, you did not have to push over trees for the deer to have something to eat. The deer always finds food on their own.
There is more food in the woods for them to eat today then there was 50 years ago. The reason for that is forest regeneration.

As with the stories that I tell about my great grandparents farms and how my one great grandparents farm burned down around 1930 - which was due to the timbering practices of the late 19th century, where lumber companies would go into the woods and clear cut everything for miles.
They would leave brush piles and smoldering fires which would rage and burn for counties - due to the fact that we had no modern fire fighting equipment or the knowledge of how not to log a forest.

In places like Parkers Dam, where active logging operations took place, it was very common for the timber companies to buy up large parcels of land and log it and then leave nothing but devastation. That was the reason for the CCC camp down in Pennfield. They had a pretty big job - back during the depression, trying to replant the forest and trying to clean up the mess that the timber companies left behind.

My dentist told me that they have a camp down near Karthas (Clearfield County) and that they do not see the deer that they once saw. That it isn't even worth going to camp anymore - because there is no deer there no more.
Basically the same story that I was told about other places, even Marionville and Brockway - that they have deer, just not enough of them to be able to hunt them. Maybe 1 deer per a mile.

I was telling the story the other day about a man that visited our hunting camp back in the 70's and 80's.
His family owned (Nelson) Clearfield Furs...
Back around 1910 - his grandfather was up on Clearfield Mountain and saw a deer track. Not a deer - just a track. He cut the track out of the mud and carried it back to Clearfield to show people - because if he told them that he saw a deer track - no one would have believed him.

I can remember going to Grice Gun Shop at night back in the 1970's and seeing no less then 100 deer beside the road, eating the freshly planted green grass. The record books shows that at one time Clearfield County was the record producer of deer in the entire state of Pennsylvania.

So my question is - where did they go?

The coyote's didn't get all of them!

Most of the deer, were shot by hunters, who knew that they could shoot multiple deer, shot the deer and put them in their freezers.
The PGC did not have to kill the deer, all they had to do was sell a unlimited amount of licenses and let the sportsmen do it for them.

There is no deer management going on here.
The only management taking place is the PGC wanting to turn this place into a trophy hunting area and attracting out of state hunters, so they can raise license fee's and charge more money for out of state hunters - so that we can be like Colorado - where people will be willing to pay big money to come here and shoot a trophy whitetail deer.

Like I said before - as more and more deer are shot, more and more posted signs will go up until the day will come where either you will own your own piece of land or you will go to the Game Lands to hunt deer.
Or as the deer are all shot off - more and more posted signs will come down and less and less people will hunt in that area.

A couple of years ago, things were so bad up in Potter County - because there were no hunters coming up to hunt, no hunters buying things in the stores and no hunters drinking in the bars - that you could practically solicit sex in a bar for the price of a couple of cans of baby formula or a couple of packs of Marlboro cigarettes - because things are so bad up there from the loss of revenue from the loss of hunters from the loss of deer in the woods. It is a trickle down theory.
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Old 11-09-2010, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Hooterville PA
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If you were going to manage a deer in a certain area, the area of management would be no bigger then the county that it resided in.

If a person wanted to buy a license, they would have to apply to the country treasurer for a doe permit for that county. As soon as you crossed the county line, your permit was no longer valid.

If you were going to manage deer, you would not permit does to be shot on the same days as bucks and you would not allow people to hunt does 12 days a year in rifle season.

If you were going to manage deer - you would not have a 6 week long archery season.

People gets really upset with me when I get started about archery hunters.
I make them out to be the villians, and some people takes offense to that.

Let me explain how archery hunting works.

Day one - you have been practicing shooting your bow for a month or more and the season opens and you are all excited that it is archery season and that you have first dibs at shooting everything in the woods.
This attracts many hunters - because they are after a trophy deer and just like being first at anything - you have your choice of where you hunt and what you hunt and how many days you wish to hunt.

So you go out into the woods all gung ho.
You realize that you have no scouted enough and that the deer are all crossing down below you and that you need to move your tree stand 50 yards to have a better opportunity.
A couple of days later, you still have not harvested a deer and now you are getting desperate - so you shoot a doe, then you feel remorseful - because you realize that if you tag it - you cannot go out in rifle season and shoot another one - so you don't tag it - because you are only hunting right behind your house and as long as you don't tell no one - or as long as you have a bonus tag - no one knows if you shot a doe or not.

Now weeks has gone by and you have seen that trophy buck several times. Just that you have not been able to get close enough to get a good shot off. So you start buying deer pee and lures and deer calls and trying all kinds of trickery - so you can get this deer to come in closer so you can shoot it.

Now it is the rut - your season is almost over.
You still have not shot your deer yet and you are getting desperate.
You go down to the store and you buy a jug of C'Mere deer - because your hero Ted Nugent says that it will attract deer for miles.
You place your deer stand directly over the bait zone.
You sit and you wait.
If you are successful - you aren't going to tell anyone what you did to get your deer, all you are going to do is show them the antlers or the body mount and in a couple of years - all you are going to remember is that in 2010 - you shot this nice buck behind your house.
If you do not get him, there is no worries because rifle season is only two weeks away and all your land is posted and he will still be here when the rut is over - as long as someone else - on the next piece of property did not shoot him before he gets to your land on the first day of rifle season.

This in my opinion is how a portion of the archery hunters seasons takes place from one year to the next. Constantly worrying about who is on their property, constantly worrying about if someone else shot their buck.
Constantly plotting and scheming if they can shoot multiple deer and not get caught.

Some people will even go as far as to go out and buy 100 posted signs and staple them in trees - to keep honest people out of their hunting area, even though they don't own the land that they just posted.

The long and the short of it is - yesterday I drove 150 miles in the woods and side roads and main highways of Pennsylvania and did not see a deer and did not even see a dead deer along side the roads. Not even on I 80
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Old 11-09-2010, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,662 posts, read 16,263,965 times
Reputation: 14567
Honest Bob,

We have been doing the maple tree thing for many years. In the 60’s,70’s and 80’s I would see lots of deer foraging on the tops. There were tracks all over. Even though it seems like a waste of time today; we still do it. We keep hoping that some deer will return and we do use the firewood for the cabin - after the maples finally die.

We have some very old pictures on our camp walls of our barren hills during the turn of the last century. Most people do not believe that we had no trees. It was not just the timbering industry; it was also the tanning industry. For tanning; they would strip magnificent hemlock of the bark and let the wood lay. The wood had no value to them back then.

I do not like the combined season. I think that it opens the door for those that cheat. When you have a group of friends, that hunt together and some have doe permits; the call goes out to fill those tags. It isn’t legal; but I think that is how it plays out. I also did not like the extended archery. I don’t know how many times I have that took shots they should have never taken. I took one of those shots years ago at the largest buck I ever saw. I then gave up archery. I am also color blind; which makes me a terrible tracker.

Hunters have better tools than they ever had. In the old days it was hard to stay dry and warm. Leather boots could freeze your toes. There was originally no compound bows. There were no bow string triggers or sights. Look at the changes in muzzle loader tech. Then look at the scents that we have today - In the old days a scent was rubbing your boots on your fellow hunter’s buck scent glands. There was no such thing as a walkie-talkies and cell phones - we wasted a lot of time waiting for the rest of our party. There was no such thing as an ATV or dirt bike - if you could not walk there or drag there; you did not hunt there.

Anyway; it is hard to get hunters together that feel today’s hunting experiences is not what they really want. If we can get together as a group; we could pressure the GC for change.
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Old 11-09-2010, 09:15 AM
 
996 posts, read 977,672 times
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Bob - for the most part, you are talking about the habits of slob hunters/poachers. It's too bad if your area is full of them. Thankfully, I don't see too much of that riff-raff activity in my area.
Not saying it does not happen, but I don't think it very widespread in my area.

I'm not trying to stick up for the PGC, but I see the work they do in the gamelands of WMU's in my area, plenty of habitat work including food plots, responsible select tree cutting. No gas drilling in my area either.

Are you in the area of the state with the 4pt AR? I have read where some guys are complaining that it should be reduced to 3 like the rest of the state. They claim that many deer with genetics to only sport a 6-7 points rack are illegal to shoot and dominate the gene pool. I'm not sure I buy the total genetics reasoning for antler development, food type and availability also play into it IMO.
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Hooterville PA
712 posts, read 1,849,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varmintblaster View Post
Bob - for the most part, you are talking about the habits of slob hunters/poachers. It's too bad if your area is full of them. Thankfully, I don't see too much of that riff-raff activity in my area.
Not saying it does not happen, but I don't think it very widespread in my area.

I'm not trying to stick up for the PGC, but I see the work they do in the game lands of WMU's in my area, plenty of habitat work including food plots, responsible select tree cutting. No gas drilling in my area either.

Are you in the area of the state with the 4pt AR? I have read where some guys are complaining that it should be reduced to 3 like the rest of the state. They claim that many deer with genetics to only sport a 6-7 points rack are illegal to shoot and dominate the gene pool. I'm not sure I buy the total genetics reasoning for antler development, food type and availability also play into it IMO.
I am in 2D - but I hunt most every where.

The issue is not the antler restriction, it is the lack of private lands to hunt, the lack of ways to get into the game lands when people buys up the land surrounding the game lands and then treats it like as if it is private property.

It is that as the road hunters cleans out the deer in the north, they just put more gasoline in the tank and move south.

When we had county by county permits for antlerless deer, the roaming was not as bad because the hunter was limited by a 2 day season and by a county wide doe permit - which was no good in the next county.

When you have a zone that encompasses 3 counties, the people from everywhere is welcome to go to where ever they have to go to find and shoot a deer - and not just in their home county.

We have lot's of city slickers coming from Latrobe and Blairsville - because they ruined where they hunted, because there is no hunting left where they hunted - because someone built a house where they hunted and the safety zones or posted signs are now where woods once stood. Or that they found this place by accident and they got a deer here and now they want to come here every year.

The days of going to the big woods, pooling your money together to buy a deer camp and going to deer camp for a week or two is now over.

The wife tells you that you can have one day and maybe the two Saturdays and the rest of the time - you must work.
The boss tells you that deer season - is also Christmas time and that it is the busiest season of the year and that they cannot spare you for a entire week and that your fellow employees voted to give back the first day of deer season as a paid vacation day - because they wanted more money in their pay envelope.
The kids tells you that they are playing sports and that they want you to be sitting in the stands cheering them on - on the week nights and Saturdays and that you now have so many things competing for your time that the Game Commission listened to these city slickers and allowed more days and more opportunities for a person to legally hunt deer.

That creates a problem, first it gives people more opportunities to break the law. Second the people who do not have families and has the time off - as in unemployed people - has all the time in the world to go out and shoot a deer. The more opportunities the more illegal activities goes on.

I have hunted all over the eastern USA and I have shot 200 deer in my life.
I think I know a little about hunting deer.

If the Game Commission said tomorrow that they were going to close the doe season for 2 years in my zone, I would not just go out and buy a tag for another zone and I would not get mad that they did it.
I believe that it would be in the best interests for the deer herd as a whole if they did close the season and if they did keep the antler restrictions and if they did not allow children to shoot deer in the woods with or without a license. There was too much shenanigans going on the first year that they allowed it and now it just lets dad have one more tag to shoot deer with and it allows the gun shops to sell more youth guns...

It does not benefit me, it does not benefit my family, it does not benefit the deer herd which is already depressed in some areas to the point of being almost non existent.

There is no point in fighting about this on the internet..
The only way we can work to make a change is to get our lawmakers in office to listen to us and to change the seasons.
The PGC - does not set the seasons or the bag limits, our state legislatures does that for us. All the PGC does is enforce the laws that the state makes.
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