Relocating to SE PA from NYC (Philadelphia, Reading: middle-class, crime rate, how much)
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I might be relocating from NYC to PA for a job near Reading. On my very short visit there, I was dissuaded from even thinking about moving to the actual city of Reading. The surrounding towns (Wyomissing, West Reading) seemed nice, but I am a born-and-bred city girl, and fear that I would be bored and lonely in the suburbs. (FYI, I am single and in my thirties).
I am considering moving to Philly (maybe Manayunk area? near I-76?) and doing a reverse commute. Is this totally insane? I live in NYC, so I am used to hour-long commutes!
Hey,
I'm a NYCer who spends a lot of time in the Reading area for personal reasons.
Wyomissing is a nice suburb, and West Reading has a cute downtown, but if NY is your thing, you'll be bored out of your mind here. It's hard to explain just what it is, but Berks has a blandness that is reflected in everything around here: the types of businesses, the closing hours, the general pace of life. The city of Reading itself, while it might look attractive to a city gal (row houses, skyscrapers, etc.) really has little to recommend for itself. Not that there aren't nice parts of the city, mind you, but just because a neighborhood is historical or congested, doesn't mean that it has any urban charm, and in Reading's case, that minimal charm needs to counterbalance the city's lack of safety and functionality.
I'm told that Lancaster and Bethlehem are considerably better. I've been to Lancaster and can attest that it is a bit better, but i'm not sure it justifies the 35 minutes commute. Bethlehem, I don't really know. Hopefully other people can fill in. Kutztown, about 25 minutes out of Reading, actually has more of a vibe than anything else in Berks, due to its college, but it lacks in amenities and is probably less than ideal for a 30 something single person. Bethlehem or even Easton have the advantages that they are closer to NY. You can drive from Easton to Manhattan in an hour.
If I were you, I'd seriously consider Manayunk, Conshocken, or a suburb on the Philly mainline. You could even try something farther out like King of Prussia or Collegeville. The latter towns are not that exciting either (typical suburban fare) but if you live in those towns you are close enough to socialize in Philly.
The commute can be kind of annoying but you'd be reverse commuting, and thus avoiding the worst of the traffic. In my experience the drive from Reading to King of Prussia is usually congestion free, whereas the drive from King of Prussia into Philly on 76 is awful. By commuting from KOP to Reading you avoid the worst part of the commute, and when you go into philly for social events, you're going at off-peak hours.
Good luck
Hi - grew up near Reading, and I now live in Philly. How close to Reading is your job going to be? For example, if it's south of Reading along 422, that might make the commute more appealing than, say...north of Reading along Route 61.
But, big picture: Philadelphia to Reading every day sounds extreme. To me. If you're used to an hour or so commute into NYC now, it might not make that much difference to you. But if you're used to living in the city and walking or using public transit to work, I can't imagine it being fun. I guess you probably wouldn't get caught up in Philly traffic every day, since it is a reverse commute. I personally just can't imagine doing it.
On the other hand, you are not going to find the NYC lifestyle in Reading or anywhere near Reading. In Philly, you will find it on a smaller scale. Lots of people relocate from New York to Philadelphia for many reasons. However, Manyunk might get old. It's hip or whatever. But it's not the city. You have main street, you have bars, you have young drunk people just out of college. While I see Manyunk's appeal, I don't think it's worth it for the commute. It's essentially a really nice and trendy small town all the way on the edge of what today is the city of Philadelphia. You're still looking at taking the bus or train into Center City if you want to "experience" the city or what have you.
West Reading is a nice place, for sure. But, like you said, it's a bit street-car suburban (I have no idea if it actually is a street-car suburb).
Don't be dissuaded of actually living in Reading though. It's not New York City, it's not Philadelphia, it's not fancy, it's not hip, and it's not a hot spot for young people. It's a small city. There's not a ton of street life. But, assuming you were dissuaded about it because of "crime" or it being dilapidated - it's not as bad as people make it seem. It's essentially a small city with the crime rate of a larger city. It's no more dangerous than Philly, it just doesn't have the advantages that Philly has that make people more willing to live with the problems. There are nice neighborhoods within Reading. There's investment being made in it. It's getting better - or at the very least it is stabilized.
I have to go now, so I can't go on. But I'll reply again if you have further questions, or you can send me a private message.
Thanks for the replies. I'm used to long commutes by public transportation. I haven't owned or driven a car in years, but I know I'm just going to have to get used to it again. But I also need to figure out how often I need to commute. It might be less than five days a week.
What are some "nice" neighborhoods within Reading to look at?
To complicate things further, another reason I am leaning towards Philly is that I am not white or heterosexual. The Reading burbs seemed so white middle-class family-oriented to me, which is part of what I meant by by being afraid of being bored and lonely there as opposed to in a big city.
Thanks for the replies. I'm used to long commutes by public transportation. I haven't owned or driven a car in years, but I know I'm just going to have to get used to it again. But I also need to figure out how often I need to commute. It might be less than five days a week.
What are some "nice" neighborhoods within Reading to look at?
To complicate things further, another reason I am leaning towards Philly is that I am not white or heterosexual. The Reading burbs seemed so white middle-class family-oriented to me, which is part of what I meant by by being afraid of being bored and lonely there as opposed to in a big city.
Perhaps you want to look towards working in Philadelphia in the long run? It really does have a lot of what NYC has to offer at a much smaller scale, including lots of people who live without cars (like myself) and a cheaper cost of living than NYC.
Also, keep in mind that you are going to get a much better deal on housing in Reading than in Philadelphia. There are deals to be had in Philly (I got one here in Center City Philly), but you could still likely be paying well over 1,000 a month for a one bedroom in Manyunk. I imagine you could live pretty much anywhere in Reading, and have multiple bedrooms, for less than that. And I'm not sure if you've seen Manyunk - but if you haven't, just keep in mind that it's not "the city". It's in Philly, and it's nice, and has a ton of appeal for young people. But it's a neighborhood, not the "big city". Of course, living there you are also a pretty quick train ride away from Center City, which does have a big city feel to it. I'm not necessarily saying anything bad about Manyunk - but unless you've seen it, I just want to make sure you realize that within the city of Philadelphia, Manyunk is loved for its "vibrant small town" vibe as opposed to its "big cosmopolitan city vibe" (that part of the city being Center City and surrounding neighborhoods).
I grew up in a small town about 20 minutes outside of Reading (called Hamburg), and it was not all that tolerant. I assume that the immediate suburbs of Reading would be fairly tolerant, especially the more well to do places like West Reading and Wyomissing - and the city itself, while probably being more socially conservative than New York or Philadelphia, is the democratic stronghold in Berks County. I doubt you'd have any big problems. The city itself is very diverse, with a large hispanic population and a sizable black population, as well as plenty of white people. I don't really know how life is like there for LGBT people, except to say that I have a gay friend from high school who lives there and doesn't have any complaints.
For what it's worth, if you live in West Reading and set youself up within walking distance of Penn Avenue, you at least have some things to do. And the area does have a yuppie vibe to it, with coffee, tea, restaurants, boutiques (at least boutiques as far as Reading is concerned) and a lot of people coming and going to the Vanity Fair outlets (a pretty well known outlet mall just a block or two north of Penn Avenue). Actually, you might very well find living in that walkable strip of West Reading much more suited to your needs than Reading the city proper.
You don't know which parts of Reading you've seen, have you? I didn't grow up there, so I don't know proper neighborhood names. I think the worst part of Reading is the area around Buttonwood. Generally, when it comes to Reading, looks are NOT deceiving. The places that are rough look rough.
Around Downtown Reading (I actually think they call it Center City, like in Philadelphia) there are some beautiful homes on and off of 5th Street (US Route 222 Business). 5th Street and Penn Street is the center of Center City, with some bars/restaurants, a small arena with a minor league hockey team and concerts, a performing arts center, an IMAX movie theater, the goggle works arts center, some hotels (like the beautiful Abraham Lincoln Hotel), a lot of churches, the courthouse, Reading Area Community College....that's the highlights. There are other things you'd expect in a city of the size though. Banks, pharmacies, fast food. Moving north from Center City on 5th Street (keep in mind it's a small city, so we're only talking about a couple of blocks) PA Route 61 junctions with 5th Street, and I think is called Centre Avenue. Centre Park is near there, and there are some magnificent houses (mansions would not be a stretch). All of that is VERY well kept.
Immediately south of Center City is the area where I *think* (no guarantee) has become more Mexican over the years. I can't comment on the area, but overall across the country, neighborhoods where Mexican people have settled have seen improvements. I've only walked through this area a couple of times, but it seemed like a pretty normal and blue collar place. Not a ton going on besides some corner stores and churches.
And then heading east out of Center City down Penn Street/Perkiomen Avenue towards Mount Penn it gets pretty nice again. Not a ton going on besides some corner stores and delis, but you have some beautiful urban scenery with well kept row homes built on hills, with the mountains (which you should go walking/hiking/exploring in) as a background.
I also think that the area around Albright College is pretty nice, although I have honestly never been there. I don't think there is a ton going on there though.
That's not an all-inclusive description of the city, but hopefully it helps.
Personally, having been born in Queens New York and spent half of my childhood there, then having spent the other half in a small town near Reading, then having gone to college in Minneapolis, and now living in Philadelphia: I think Reading is a pretty nice place. It has crime issues that many cities of 80,000 don't have to deal with. It's made "dangerous cities" lists in the past or whatever - but so have a lot of cities. In my opinion, it has seen its worst days and the future is bright. A lot of its bad reputation comes from people in the somewhat backwards small towns surrounding it, who - while being nice people in most ways - are scared of the world around them. Reading isn't the hellhole people make it out to be. I imagine from your time in New York, you know that there are nice places and bad places everywhere. People who spend their whole lives in a small town don't always get that you can live in a city with some crime problems, and have crime not really effect your life at all. Therefore they absurdly swear off ever setting foot in Reading at all, and sometimes scare others by spreading gossip about the city or what have you.
Just read what stoic said, so I'll just add another post. Berks county does tend to be on the boring side. I don't mean to say that it's not.
Conshohoken has a nice little downtown and some young people who live there. I don't quite understand the appeal of it, but it's there. And it's closer to Reading. King of Prussia itself is very suburban. But there are lots of neat towns in the area - and it will put you closer to reading. Such as: Phoenixville is also part of the Philly Metro Area, and is a town of around 15,000, and is pretty neat town. Pottstown is not hip like Phoenixville, but has a nice downtown area and has a population of about 20,000. Pottstown is right on the border of Berks County, just off of 422, and actually wouldn't be that bad of a commute to Reading. 422 goes right into Reading, it actually becomes Penn Street, the commercial heart of Reading and West Reading.
Bethelehem has a neat little downtown, but it is pretty far.
Kutztown is a pretty neat college town of a couple thousand people. It's highly geared towards the college student - which can be good and bad.
Thanks, again, for all of the information. I am going to be in Philadelphia this weekend, and am going to check out NW neighborhoods. My move isn't until the summer, so I will check out the Reading area again at another time.
Whatever you do, do NOT select Lancaster. If you are not white and not heterosexual, it will be hard to make your way here. It's one of the most intolerant places I've ever lived - my husband and I (white and heterosexual) have found it to be an unfriendly nightmare. Our neighbors look askance at us because we're not from PA. I would never recommend this community to ANYONE.
Whatever you do, do NOT select Lancaster. If you are not white and not heterosexual, it will be hard to make your way here. It's one of the most intolerant places I've ever lived - my husband and I (white and heterosexual) have found it to be an unfriendly nightmare. Our neighbors look askance at us because we're not from PA. I would never recommend this community to ANYONE.
Do you live in the city, or just the county? I haven't spent a ton of time in Lancaster the city, but have been through the country a lot. My impression was that the city was fairly liberal. And it's only 66% white, which means that if it's an intolerant place there are a whole lot of people not being tolerated.
I don't think OP would be looking at Lancaster anyway. Rural PA can get very conservative, but I thought Lancaster wasn't quite like that. Maybe it's just not like what you're used to, which is fair. The intolerance of small town Berks County got pretty unbearable for me at times - but it's surely not everybody's fault.
Whatever you do, do NOT select Lancaster. If you are not white and not heterosexual, it will be hard to make your way here. It's one of the most intolerant places I've ever lived - my husband and I (white and heterosexual) have found it to be an unfriendly nightmare. Our neighbors look askance at us because we're not from PA. I would never recommend this community to ANYONE.
I couldn't agree with you more. In order to get on around here you have to completely change who you are and after a while you get tired of it. I never tell anyone my religion (Catholic) and try to hide my accent as much as possible. I've been here almost 30 years. I cannot wait until my circumstances change and I can get out! No matter how much you go out of your way for people and join organizations. You will always be an outsider.
Not all of PA is like this. There are great folks down here- just not in Lancaster County! I also find it's not so much the men it's the women. Close- minded. Manipulative. Jealous. LOL- country divas! Even the educated fall into the same behavior. It's like a bad reality tv show. All about the drama. I think that's the reason my father and brother have done well and my mother and I have not.
If you have the personality for it- you'll do well. I'm not much on acting. It's been hard to hold a job and make friends. I do not recommend moving here or in any of the surrounding Sus Q/Amish Country counties. jmo
I also attended a local university and found the same way of thinking. Terrible. True higher education should be about expression and free thought. Anything remotely outside the norm is ridiculed. I went from a happy, extroverted person- that loved people to a hermit. Heartbreaking.
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Heartbreaking.
