do pennsylvania people hate marylanders (Scranton, York: fit in, home, gated communities)

[BPP1999]

Marodi, really? I don't agree; even our state leaders say they WANT large developments to occur in existing towns. I would think that plenty of small towns would benefit from large developments, though in this thread I'm probably out of context. I'm thinking of old industrialized steel towns (Conshohocken, Phoenixville, Pottstown) that have experienced significant job losses, while places like Oxford were more small farming towns.

One thing I notice here in some of the outer areas of Montgomery County where there's more land to build is that even though some townships have seen 100%+ increases in population (i.e. Limerick) over the last 10 years, there has been almost no infrastructure improvements. PA seems to be famous for this - approving any and all developments, then doing next to nothing to deal with traffic.

And I'm for growth. PA needs to be gaining population at a rate higher than 25% of the national average. We need to be be gaining more population of young, educated people as well. I can see positives from the fact that Northeastern PA is growing with NYC/NJ transplants, and parts of Southcentral PA are growing with DC transplants.

[talk2u]

Originally Posted by RowJimmy

You dont know my situation, so dont be so concerned about me.

That whole native American thing was just stupid. What was the point in that? You are trying to argue against urban sprawl being bad for the environment by saying something like we took land from the Native Americans? Ok.

BPP1999, I agree with what you said about trying to get our local govenment to change its laws on Land Use. Like I said, I love the laws in Oregon and Washington state. I am not trying to get on anybody. I am just upset that places like Lancaster county is losing its farm land at such a large rate by out of staters, because our government allows them too.

Well you posted your situation on your City-Data profile, so unless that info is incorrect, you made your situation known. I took a direct quote from your post and commented on it based on my interpretation of its context. How is that stupid? You sound stupid to me. Please stop your bashing! People have moved here and will continue to move here. So if you don't like it, why don't you move. Simple enough.

[Marodi]

Originally Posted by BPP1999

Marodi, really? I don't agree; even our state leaders say they WANT large developments to occur in existing towns. I would think that plenty of small towns would benefit from large developments, though in this thread I'm probably out of context. I'm thinking of old industrialized steel towns (Conshohocken, Phoenixville, Pottstown) that have experienced significant job losses, while places like Oxford were more small farming towns.

One thing I notice here in some of the outer areas of Montgomery County where there's more land to build is that even though some townships have seen 100%+ increases in population (i.e. Limerick) over the last 10 years, there has been almost no infrastructure improvements. PA seems to be famous for this - approving any and all developments, then doing next to nothing to deal with traffic.

And I'm for growth. PA needs to be gaining population at a rate higher than 25% of the national average. We need to be be gaining more population of young, educated people as well. I can see positives from the fact that Northeastern PA is growing with NYC/NJ transplants, and parts of Southcentral PA are growing with DC transplants.

That's because unlike maryland, developers don't have to pay for infastructure needs for the development. Sewage, water, transportation, they don't have to pay for it, or rarely.

Just because leaders want it dosen't mean the people do. Bush WANTS to stay in Iraq, but people don't want to. The thing is commercial and industrial is where a lot of the tax revenue is gathered from since they put less strain on infrastructure and use less space for the amount of tax revenue. When someone comes to live in PA and work elsewhere, it puts a strain on budgets. The thing is the tax revenue from people isnt enough. Like I said before, Biglerville is expecting I think it was 3000 dollars per house in taxes, but spends 8000 per kid for school. That dosent account for anything else they need. Sure they might get a few more buisnesses, mabye a McDonalds, but not enough to pay for it.

It's also KILLING the aquifer. I know our farm we had a 150 foot well that ran dry, to even get the water supply needed we had to go down 400 feet. Also, along the farm side, property taxes go up and force farmers out of buisness, it's a catch 22. Farm sells for houses, neighboring farms go up in value and have extra taxes. Extra taxes cause farms to have problems, so they sell for houses. Rinse, repeat.

And unfortunately, the townships/government don't have the authority to prohibit developments. All they can do is hopefully make it such a pain in the ass that the developer gives up, which almost never happens.

[RowJimmy]

Originally Posted by Marodi

Pretty much. That and they don't have the same kind of thinking of "Oh man, Gotta go here, go there, go here, go there, run run run, time's a wasting", so there isn't a pressure to go faster.

I'm not against growth, I'm for smart growth. Limit the % increase in population based on township, limit growth to be near already improved roads and next to existing developments. Building a 300-600 home development and surrounded for 5 miles on each side by farms so all the roads have to be improved for traffic, that upsets me. Building a 300-600 home development, while obscenely large, isn't as disturbing on the boundries of a city/large town. Building a 150-300 (I think that's what it was last time I checked) house development in a town of 1000, that pisses me off.

You said it exactly right. We need smart growth in the old PA towns to help bring back these towns. It isn't going to happen by building large Mcmansion developments on the farm lands miles from these towns. People in Pa are just starting to get the concept of smart growth.

[RowJimmy]

Originally Posted by talk2u

Well you posted your situation on your City-Data profile, so unless that info is incorrect, you made your situation known. I took a direct quote from your post and commented on it based on my interpretation of its context. How is that stupid? You sound stupid to me. Please stop your bashing! People have moved here and will continue to move here. So if you don't like it, why don't you move. Simple enough.

My situation is I moved back from living in Philly and Denver (both the cities) to help take care of family because of illness. Would you please just stop. Seriously. I can't wait to move back down to the city in a few months. "People have moved here and continue to move here, so move away." It is the state I am from and lived in most of my life. Why should I move instead of sharing my points of argument on how my state should develop. Oh yeah, How does a stupid person get a architectural engineering degree with a minor in architecture?

[Marodi]

Originally Posted by RowJimmy

You said it exactly right. We need smart growth in the old PA towns to help bring back these towns. It isn't going to happen by building large Mcmansion developments on the farm lands miles from these towns. People in Pa are just starting to get the concept of smart growth.

Well, the small towns out here in western york/adams county don't really need help "bringing them back". I think anyone that hasn't lived rural dosen't understand that small towns in the middle of no where like being that way, and don't want it to change. Being able to park in the road blocking a lane, being able to pass tractors on 2 lane roads without trouble, being able to walk down the street and litterally hear no cars, they, and myself to an extension (I hate driving more than 2-5 minutes to a gas station and grocery store) like. And don't want that to change.

It's something you can't understand until you live it. I used to be pro-sprawl till I saw the otherside.

[kryzif]

I'm from a small town in PA. We recently got a wal-mart, and I have to say, I love it! So many people were against this damn walmart, but it has created a lot of jobs for people, and other development which has been great for our community. Let's say this realistically: PA has higher REAL ESTATE taxes then MD, but the cost of living and housing is higher in MD then in PA, so it really evens out, and depending on where we are talking in MD, you can get more for your money in PA. I don't think it's so much that people in MD want to move to PA so they can have an acre of land that "used to be a farm", but maybe they would like to share in the feel of a small town and have a little peace and quiet. I don't see that as a crime.

Change is not always a bad thing. Biglerville, since you brought it up, is a huge nothing town. Sorry, but it is. There's virtually nothing there. One of my best friends lives there and everytime we get together, we go to Carlisle... Like I said, there's nothing there. They just built a new school. That's why the taxes are going up. Sure there are people moving into the area, but those new people are paying taxes as well.

Being a PA resident who commutes to Frederick County everyday, I HATE the traffic, but unfortunately like many other things, this is a part of life. With development comes more people, which equals more cars, which equals more traffic. Maybe PA AND MD should consider using the tax money for roads and educational purposes instead of throwing it away on God knows what.

Frankly, it does not bother me one bit that people are moving into my small town from Frederick and Baltimore counties. Frankly it seems smart. The reason they have to commute two hours to work everyday is because PA sucks for job opportunities. Maybe if there were more job opportunities, nobody would have to commute, the roads in MD wouldn't be so crowded and the employment rate would lower, and our taxes would in turn be lower since we wouldn't be paying people welfare and unemployment while they are sitting on their asses because they "can't find a job".

The truth hurts... But let's face reality: Change is inevitable. We all better just learn to adjust. Whatever happened to being open-minded and sensible, open to change and doing unto others as you would have done unto you. These are the values that a small town attempts to instill in their young people, so why are their so many close-minded people hating MD'ers? I don't get it. I just don't see it, I'm sorry.

MD'ers, as far as I am concerned, you are more than welcome to move here. We need some development. Like I said, if you move here, more development = more businesses and more businesses = better job opportunities for people like me who lose 2 hours everyday with my family because I have to commute to MD to get paid a decent wage so I can pay real estate taxes in PA.

[kryzif]

[quote=Marodi;1392742]Well, the small towns out here in western york/adams county don't really need help "bringing them back". I think anyone that hasn't lived rural dosen't understand that small towns in the middle of no where like being that way, and don't want it to change. Being able to park in the road blocking a lane, being able to pass tractors on 2 lane roads without trouble, being able to walk down the street and litterally hear no cars, they, and myself to an extension (I hate driving more than 2-5 minutes to a gas station and grocery store) like.[quote]

I'm sorry, but it pisses me off when people park in the middle of a road simply because they can, and when I have to pass a damn tractor because why are they driving on the ROAD anyways?

I'm sorry, but I live the small town life you're describing (for the past 21 years) and I hate some of the aspects. The peace and quiet is nice, and I hate developments myself, but development and growth in general is not something people should fear.

[RowJimmy]

[/quote]peace and quiet is nice, and I hate developments myself, but development and growth in general is not something people should fear.[/quote]

I am not against growth at all. I am not against development. I am against urban sprawl growth. I am for smart growth. Pa needs to learn what smart growth is. It still makes jobs. In the long run though areas don't look like a form of everywhereville that is ruining the last that we have lest in this state. Urban sprawl growth and developments that all look the same are just easier, and greedy developers can profit on them more. Smart growth produces more white collar jobs. You don't have just one guy producing a single house construction set that gets duplicated over and over again. Smart growth would bring in design jobs other then just construction jobs.

Smart Growth Online

[talk2u]

Originally Posted by RowJimmy

My situation is I moved back from living in Philly and Denver (both the cities) to help take care of family because of illness. Would you please just stop. Seriously. I can't wait to move back down to the city in a few months. "People have moved here and continue to move here, so move away." It is the state I am from and lived in most of my life. Why should I move instead of sharing my points of argument on how my state should develop. Oh yeah, How does a stupid person get a architectural engineering degree with a minor in architecture?

Well, I'm voicing my opinion too. Did you forget that you were the one who called me stupid? What does your degree have to do with anything? I have a degree as well and I work for a major government entity, but I don't feel that makes me smarter than someone who may work at McDonalds. It just means I had better opportunities and was able to capitalize off of them. It doesn't at ALL make me better or smarter.

However, there's no need to continue with the name calling or debate any further. We'll just peacefully agree to disagree. Can we at least agree to that?