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Old 09-08-2012, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,754 posts, read 17,961,406 times
Reputation: 14730

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In PA we have recently toughened our scrap metal laws: ScrapLaws.com - Laws, Resources, Prices and News for Recyclers of Metal, Paper, Plastic, etc. They include (according to that link):
“Video of yard activity is required.
Tag and Hold policies in effect.
Retain a copy of the drivers license.
Record the customers license plate number and/or vehicle description.
Take a photo or record a description of the materials.
Take a photo of the seller.
Notify law enforcement regarding scrap purchases.
Report vehicle information to NMVTIS.”

But we are still having major problems. I hear about a theft almost every other day and I do not live in a large city. Some states have even taken their laws a step farther. Here is a link that talks about Arizona's new laws: Arizona Scrap Metal Laws | eHow.com AZ requires that scrap yards do not pay cash and send a check to the seller's address. They also take a finger print, do not allow those under sixteen to sell scrap, have a physical diescription of the seller as part of the record and have a list of forbidden transactions.

Five other states have also jumped on this bandwagon: Five New Copper Theft Bills Signed Into Law - Coop Law Blog All drafting legislation to make “fencing” stolen scrap harder.

Thieves do thousands of dollars in damage to our homes and businesses for just hundreds of dollars in scrap. It is long overdue to close the window of opportunity to these crooks. I hope that some enterprising politicians will jump on the bandwagon and push for stricter laws.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
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I would object to being fingerprinted when selling something that's mine in the first place.

The law also has to punish the scrap yard owner.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Lehighton/Jim Thorpe area
2,095 posts, read 3,086,018 times
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No, they do not. There's got to be a way that these scrapyard owners can verify that this metal is stolen. When some shady character shows up with a bunch of scrap metal it's gotta be a warning sign to these scrapyards. I like the idea of sending the check instead of cash upfront. That should give the scrapyard time to notify local police and find out about any possible thefts in the area.

Maybe someone can educate me about this too, but I'd imagine that there are only certain people, i.e. contractors, home owners etc., that would ordinarily have access to large quantities of scrap metals. If someone shows up with a truck load of scrap, maybe a contractors license, proof of residence or some other identifying information should be required. That way when the police are notified of transactions, the scrapyard owner can show that the material came from 123 XYZ Lane, Blah Blah Town or whatever. (Although I guess the DL/ID requirement accomplishes this to an extent.)

Sadly, I think a lot of scrapyard owners are going to complain that any "law" interferes with their business, just like people do with anything else. Laws also won't help with people who leave vacation homes, rentals and homes for sale unmonitored for weeks or months at a time, but at least it's addressing a growing issue for people such as those that were in the areas that flooded last year who came home to find their houses gutted of copper, etc.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Lehighton/Jim Thorpe area
2,095 posts, read 3,086,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
I would object to being fingerprinted when selling something that's mine in the first place.

The law also has to punish the scrap yard owner.
I agree. I rarely see scrap yard owners punished.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
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Here is a post by okaydorthy on 9/6:

“I have a vacant house that is for sale and it was broken into twice for the copper pipe. Right now there is nothing in the house ; it has all be taken. The baseboard heaters also. The first time it happened, a regular cop came and took a report. The second time, a cop and a detective came and they said it was a waste of time and money to get finger prints. Meanwhile the first time, the thieves left 28 inches of water, ruining the burner, washer, dryer etc. We didn’t even get it repaired as the insurance co won't cover it because it was vacant!!
The second time I didn’t even file a claim ; its a waste of time. I am fighting the insurance co as the house was under construction inside and according to their rules, a dwelling under construction is not vacant!!
The cop said that every single vacant or foreclosed home in his precinct has no copper left as it has all been taken.”


This is part of the reason that I started this thread. The other part is that it is in my news all the time. Maybe we just need jobs and direction? But we need to get a handle on this problem. It is complicated. Partially because we need our neighbors to also cooperate. We can have tough laws and the crooks just run across the border to sell/fence their stolen goods.

Whatever our problems I think that we should look at how others deal with similar problems. We should see if their solutions work and we should take the best ideas. On the surface; I like the idea of being paid by check in the mail.

I never remember any case against a scrap yard operator. But; maybe I just missed an article? I do remember one local scrap yard that was shut down for tax evasion.
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:42 PM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,775,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatildaLoo View Post
Maybe someone can educate me about this too, but I'd imagine that there are only certain people, i.e. contractors, home owners etc., that would ordinarily have access to large quantities of scrap metals.
Perhaps not your average homeowner but I can give you numerous examples where we have scrapped metal as individuals. We had a house fire and the house was going to demolished, lot of copper pipe and wiring came out of there, the aluminum siding and various other things.

Another example was a place on the river my relatives had where many metal items had accumulated over the years like stoves, refrigerators, lawnmowers etc. I'd go there for the weekend and head home with truck full of it for 4 weeks straight. It paid for the gas. Long trip and that truck only got like 6mpg.

I'm renovating the current house and I currently have about 400 feet of black pipe I removed that will actually get sold as black pipe, an old boiler that will either be sold as oilier boiler or scrapped and two oil drums.

My two Brother just recently took a load, between three houses it adds up and for a lot of that stuff it's the only way to get rid of it.
Quote:
Sadly, I think a lot of scrapyard owners are going to complain that any "law" interferes with their business, just like people do with anything else.
Well it drives up costs for them and their legitimate customers, it's a legitimate complaint but on the other hand it's a very big issue that needs to be addressed.

Quote:

but at least it's addressing a growing issue for people such as those that were in the areas that flooded last year who came home to find their houses gutted of copper, etc.
I don;t recall any stories about anyone losing the copper in their house here but I'm sure it happened. Personally I think the town of West Pittston should of been put under matial law for a week or two. There was two big issues I had with the scrappers, firstly they were in the way. A normal 2 minute drive turned into half an hour. Just wasn't room for them and combined with the "tourists" they were really clogging up the streets. The other issue is they were taking stuff they weren't supposed to be taking, if they saw you they would ask but my brother had stove sitting in his driveway he was going to clean out only to come home to find it gone.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:15 PM
 
482 posts, read 1,229,557 times
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Last time I took things to a scrap yard (old aluminum siding from my house), they copied my id and recorded all of my vehicle information, all while having cameras set up.

There's an odd situation I always see here in Pittsburgh. We are allowed to dispose of 2 bulk items in the normal trash pick up every week. This includes things such as appliances. I've noticed on my street, there are a few people that drive around looking for scrap metal and such that people put out on garbage day. They collect what they can and then turn it in for scrap (note: none of them touch the normal recycling items like cans and such). I don't mind these people doing this, because it prevents a lot of recyclable materials from going to the land fill, and I put things out just to save a trip to the scrap yard myself (unless it is a large or valuable amount of scrap).

I've not heard of many residential thefts of materials, but I do know of some industrial thefts. The latest one involved a scheme of employees from different trucking companies stealing nickel briquettes from a steel company here. The owner of a scrap yard was involved with it and was also punished.

In the end, I think the information recorded by scrap yards should be as sufficient as it can be. It can be difficult to prove things were stolen or if they were legitimate scrap from someone's house.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Lehighton/Jim Thorpe area
2,095 posts, read 3,086,018 times
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Fisheye, I can remember one incident of a scrap yard in Scranton being implicated but I can't find the article. I want to say it was a year or so ago. That's the only one I can recall though.

Scott, in the Poconos there are a lot of vacation homes that are rented out by owners for ski season and increasingly during the summer months. There are also instances like the one fisheye discussed by a NEPA forum poster, where her house that is on the market was stripped of copper. Some of these houses are in the country with not many neighbors around. Some of them are in developments with similar vacation rentals. Some of them are in neighborhoods where the neighbors are either transient or new, or afraid to report any suspicious activity. Also, after certain parts of NEPA and Central PA got hit hard by TS Lee last year, some homes that were sitting empty were gutted of their metals. It's bad enough that these criminals do it to anyone, but to do it to a victim of a natural disaster really indicates a complete lack of morality.
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:47 AM
 
9,846 posts, read 22,579,247 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatildaLoo View Post
Fisheye, I can remember one incident of a scrap yard in Scranton being implicated but I can't find the article. I want to say it was a year or so ago. That's the only one I can recall though.

Scott, in the Poconos there are a lot of vacation homes that are rented out by owners for ski season and increasingly during the summer months. There are also instances like the one fisheye discussed by a NEPA forum poster, where her house that is on the market was stripped of copper. Some of these houses are in the country with not many neighbors around. Some of them are in developments with similar vacation rentals. Some of them are in neighborhoods where the neighbors are either transient or new, or afraid to report any suspicious activity. Also, after certain parts of NEPA and Central PA got hit hard by TS Lee last year, some homes that were sitting empty were gutted of their metals. It's bad enough that these criminals do it to anyone, but to do it to a victim of a natural disaster really indicates a complete lack of morality.
That was happening up here in Tioga County back a year or so ago. This group of crims was breaking into cabins and ripping out of all the metal, piping and wiring and anything else useful, like electronics. The state police ended up busting them with a barn full of stuff they had stolen.

There have been other isolated incidents as well, so some cabin owners up here have added security cameras that take snapshots when motion sensors are triggered.

Pretty shameful overall.

I think it goes too far if you practically have to hand over bodily fluids and have a bend over and grab the ankles exam to sell some scrap metal. I think there should be some limits and they shouldn't be pestering people with a small amount of scrap. Some guy turning up with a huge truck filled with all sorts of bits, I can understand that perhaps.
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:58 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,754 posts, read 17,961,406 times
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We have had the bad economy, all the foreclosures, we also have many second homes in our area. We also have commuters that leave their houses unprotected for over half the day. All of this was just fuel to the fire – plenty of targets. We also have major drug problems and plenty of people that will do anything for their next fix. I don't think the legalized gambling has helped – more compulsive gamblers that need funds. Then you toss in all of our unemployed and this problem has blossomed.

However; copper/metal theft is destructive. It further brings down the value of our neighborhoods and destroys the accumulated wealth of those that play by the rules. Our homes were our castles. Our homes were our reason to work hard and play by the rules. Without the reward we are in serious trouble.
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