VT family deciding where to relocate in PA - Help!

[toobusytoday]

I'm sorry Hopes, I didn't mean to imply that because my son found a job that paid more then $9 an hour that it was a big deal. I only mentioned it because the OP said, "I can't find a job that pays more than 9/hr,". My son is still in college, where he lives after that is up to him. I agree that those twenty somethings have different needs. My daughter lives in Washington DC in a tiny studio apartment. That surely would not work for a family and if she gets married and starts a family, I know she'll have decisions similar to the OP's.

I do understand about long cold winters. We've lived in the mountains of upstate New York and in West Virginia. In fact, our only source of heat when we lived in NY was wood for four long winters. When we were deciding where to live 20 some years ago I told my husband that I didn't want to move any further North then Pennsylvania.

My only point really, was to make sure that the OP and her husband have employment before they move. I meet people fairly often where I work that move here from NYC thinking that because the cost of living is lower and they see jobs advertised that they will secure work quickly.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by toobusytoday

I do understand about long cold winters. We've lived in the mountains of upstate New York and in West Virginia. In fact, our only source of heat when we lived in NY was wood for four long winters. When we were deciding where to live 20 some years ago I told my husband that I didn't want to move any further North then Pennsylvania.

I was surprised I raised a child who could endure that type of living. I gave him a pampered life, he wanted for nothing. I'm impressed he rose to the challenge. After we got him the right bedding, he never complained about how cold it was inside. I guess all those winter boyscout camping trips paid off. I couldn't do it. I stayed at a nearby hotel whenever I was staying in Vermont. I'm impressed you did it for four years. My hat is off to you. It's interesting how different areas of the country are. When we went rental hunting with our son, it never occurred to us to ask if the house had heat. LOL

Originally Posted by toobusytoday

My only point really, was to make sure that the OP and her husband have employment before they move. I meet people fairly often where I work that move here from NYC thinking that because the cost of living is lower and they see jobs advertised that they will secure work quickly.

Understood. I felt it was important to clarify the stats you posted in a cost of living and quality life context. Those average mean wages are not "pretty darn close" when you consider how much more expensive it is to live in Vermont. Statistics are only as good as the context they are presented.

It would be ideal if she found a job prior to coming here. Since she says she can't find anything above $9/hour there, it might not be an absolute necessity. She can easily make more than $9/hour here until she lands that 50k job. Heck, dishwashers make $10/hour here. Unlike some other areas of the country, those jobs are easy to obtain here for anyone who is willing to do that sort of work. It really comes down to how much savings they have, what type of safety net they have on standby, and how hard they are willing to work until they get where they want to be.

[Skiplarue]

Originally Posted by Hopes

It's definitely one of the most beautiful states I've ever seen. Unfortunately, the cost of living is through the roof.

It's great your son makes more than $9/hour up there. My son makes way more than that in Vermont. Their earnings aren't enough for adults who want to raise families in a financially secure manner. I'm sort of shocked you're touting more than $9 as a big deal. The OP are people who need real incomes, adult incomes, for raising a family in a financially secure manner. Even doubling what your son earns isn't enough for that. The hourly rate required to have a middle class lifestyle in Vermont much higher than other parts of the country.

There is a difference between being able to afford to rent a room in a house and being able to rent a single family home for a mature nuclear family. My son can get a 2 bedroom apartment in Pennsylvania for what he pays for a ROOM to rent in a house in Vermont. The indoor temps didn't go about 50 degrees in the winter. If you spend time in Vermont long enough to become friends and visit people's homes, you'd have a better idea of how people are living up there.

The 4.9% is severely under employed and underpaid workers who can't make ends meet to properly raise a family. If the OP can't find a 50k job there and can here, it's a no brainer because our cost of living is so much lower in Pittsburgh. (Allegheny County's unemployment rate is 6.1%.)


Want to know what a low cost of living buys? Peace of mind and security. Four years ago, I was laid off. I never returned to work because I don't need to work. Shortly after my being laid off, my husband needed surgery that had a two year recovery. So for two years, neither of us worked. During that time, we sent our son out of state to pursue a career that required a very heavy financial investment on our part. No grants. No student loans. Tens of thousands of dollars. We did it while not working. If I worked, I wouldn't have been able to spend my winters in Vermont.

How is that possible? Our cost of living is super low. People who live in high cost of living areas say they can't even dream of homeownership. We don't just own a home. We don't have a mortgage. It was paid off long ago because it was affordable. It didn't cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and take a lifetime to pay off. When hard times hit, we don't even feel it because we don't have housing expenses except for utilities.

That's the type of peace of mind people can create for themselves when they move to low cost of living areas that have good economies. Vermont is a high cost of living area with a terrible economy. The reason the unemployment rate is 4.8% is because very few people will move there because the jobs do not pay enough to comfortably support a family. Many Vermonters have multiple part time jobs because full time is not available to them.

Our children in their early 20s can easily live in Vermont. They can live with multiple people. They don't have responsibilities like children. And they have us to fall back on when necessary. A young couple with children doesn't want the same lifestyle that young 20something guys want to have.

Thank you.
I wasn't ready to respond. You said it all, and well.

[SteelCityRising]

I'm one of those individuals that Hopes referenced earlier who moved to Pittsburgh unemployed and found a job that paid my bills within two weeks. I was earning a $40,000 gross salary (doesn't sound so bad for a 22-year-old, eh?). I also happened to be living in the Northern Virginia suburbs of Washington, DC. When factoring in the astronomical housing costs there I was unable to comfortably support myself there. One of my dreams is to someday own my own home. I didn't foresee that as being a possibility in Northern Virginia. I moved to Pittsburgh on a leap of faith and have been so happy I did. I'm still "underemployed" considering I'm a college graduate, but I net close to $40,000 annually. With my partner, also underemployed, earning a $25,000 gross salary we can live very comfortably here with our $700/month rent for a 1-BR apartment. We dine out at least once per week. We're not stingy with utility consumption to keep our home at a comfortable temperature. I drive a newer hybrid. We have a demanding Dachshund. I could afford right now to buy us much-needed new furniture for our sparsely-appointed apartment but am instead saving for a down payment to buy our first home.

Your experience may vary, but I'm immensely happier to be living in an area with a much more manageable cost-of-living. There's so much less stress!

[greg42]

You'll get a few more responses for Cranberry Township and other areas surrounding Pittsburgh if you start a thread in the Pittsburgh sub-forum. Not sure if you're ready to focus solely on this area yet but if so you'll get a few additional responses that way.

Cranberry is basically a transition area from burbs to rural. It DOES in fact have rolling hills, to a degree, at least some parts. The main thing is if living directly in Cranberry Township a fair amount of what was rural 20-30 years ago is now developed, and probably eventually much of the rest will be too. There are still rural corners of Cranberry but they'll also be the least convenient parts for getting down to Pittsburgh, etc.

Now, you could nudge your search near Cranberry a little wider to include other neighboring townships. Some of them are in the same school district as Cranberry (Seneca Valley). Those will be mostly less convenient again to the city unless you are close to an I-79 interchange. Also New Sewickley Township in neighboring Beaver County could be an option. It is more rural and has rolling hills. Schools are adequate overall but probably not quite as good. In either case the other infrastructure like the fire departments will be less developed because it is the density of the developed areas of Cranberry that drives things like having a better equipped and better managed fire department and so forth.