Does the Coal Region have any hope for an "Urban" Revival? (Philadelphia: house, purchase)

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

That looks to be fairly nice home for $50K but what's underneath? See that window under the porch? That's the old coal bin or possibly still in use and that's necessarily a bad thing.

Real estate is not that expensive in this area, the houses you see in the link I posted might be approaching 1 million in the right neighborhood near NYC based on what I've seen on some of these TV shows. They are selling for $200K+ here.

As far as the $50K houses you have to be very careful about the neighborhood. The typical scenario is those homes are owned by senior citizens and usually well kept if they are the original owners. They might have a single bath that can literally fit one person. In My Grandmothers house for example it's 3 bedroom but you have to walk through one bedroom to get to the other. If you look at the bedroom pictures for that house you linked too that appears to be how it is there. Electricity,plumbing and other main things usually needs updating and if you want to bring those homes up to date you're going to put a lot of money into them. For a lot of those houses if you're going to do a major renovation you're better off leveling it and starting from scratch. They might have multiple small addtions or changes over the years, patchworked electrical systems etc. When you get into something like that it's a money pit.

Because of that finding buyers becomes problematic and the kids or even Grandkids are not interested. The houses get sold for cheap and they are often snapped up by landlords that aren't going to invest and/or people that don't have the money to invest. You get a less desirable element and the neighborhood deteriorates over time.

I'm well aware of the issues owning an old home. My current home was built in the 1890s, was bought for around $53,000, and was in worse shape than that at move in. If I can help it, I have no desire to ever own a house which was built after 1945, and hopefully never after 1920. I just like early housing styles more.

Originally Posted by santafe400

The funny part is, I believe some of these adjacent towns could probably take advantage of the local fame that have made the abdonded town of Centralia such a hit.

The closeness of each of them to each other could be an incredible asset. Although there's gaps in development between each of them, the "heart" is basically boroughs in a straight line 5-10 minutes apart. All you'd need is for one of them to get to have a great reputation as a funky little arts/tourist town, and the next one over would get spill-over development due to people wanting a bit cheaper digs, but still being close. Once the ball was rolling, it could turn around the entire region within say two decades.

[santafe400]

The closeness of each of them to each other could be an incredible asset. Although there's gaps in development between each of them, the "heart" is basically boroughs in a straight line 5-10 minutes apart. All you'd need is for one of them to get to have a great reputation as a funky little arts/tourist town, and the next one over would get spill-over development due to people wanting a bit cheaper digs, but still being close. Once the ball was rolling, it could turn around the entire region within say two decades.

I agree. I believe Ashland has the best chance to start the catalyst. The entire region has convenient access to I-81.

[MatildaLoo]

Originally Posted by santafe400

I agree. I believe Ashland has the best chance to start the catalyst. The entire region has convenient access to I-81.

I agree with this. Last year (or was it the year before) my boyfriend and I went for a drive along Route 54 from Lehighton through to Centralia, to Bloomsburg and then back again. We happened to drive Ashland during a parade thrown, I think, for a someone who was returning home from military service. It was like being lost in a summer night in the 1950s. Absolutely wonderful. Ashland is very similar to Palmerton in Carbon County, which has a very good business base along its main street, so I could see how with just a little push it could become a vibrant little town.

[santafe400]

Another interesting point from an outside PA perspective. Outside of PA most of the coal-mining region has been overlooked in comparision to other depressed areas, mainly is Western PA. Typically when people think of the poor side of PA, they think of the townships west of US 15 including Altoona, Johnstown, Williamsport, Erie, and Pittsburgh that have seen large decreases in their population do to the collapse of the steel and other industries. In recent years, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre have somewhat shred their "rust-belt" images due to their location near several vacation resorts and even the greater New York Area. As a result, the coal-mining region has typically been an after thought to many people throughout PA and beyond. The coal-mining region simply does not fall into that "rust belt" identity that has become so cliche of late. There are no resorts, or hotels (outside a few b&b's) away from the freeway to attract people into these towns. In other words, people do not realize many of these towns exist except for those with family roots. I find that for many of the townships scatterd throughout Western PA, identity issue is less of a concern.

It's very cool for the adventerous traveler, or road-tripper to step into downtown Mt. Carmel and have the entire town essentially to yourself. One day, that may not be the case!

I agree with this. Last year (or was it the year before) my boyfriend and I went for a drive along Route 54 from Lehighton through to Centralia, to Bloomsburg and then back again. We happened to drive Ashland during a parade thrown, I think, for a someone who was returning home from military service. It was like being lost in a summer night in the 1950s. Absolutely wonderful. Ashland is very similar to Palmerton in Carbon County, which has a very good business base along its main street, so I could see how with just a little push it could become a vibrant little town.

Great story, by the way!

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by BPP1999

I think the restoration of passenger service to Pottsville via Reading would be huge for that region. While SEPTA has been talking about bringing trains back to Reading ever since the service to Pottsville stopped in the early 80's, no one talks about bringing the trains all the way back to their original destination. Even modest service such as 4 daily trips - morning, noon, afternoon, night - would be worth considering.

It hasn't really helped Johnstown or Altoona..

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

See that window under the porch? That's the old coal bin or possibly still in use and that's necessarily a bad thing.

What's wrong with having a coal door under your porch? I see them all over Pittsburgh.

As far as the $50K houses you have to be very careful about the neighborhood. The typical scenario is those homes are owned by senior citizens and usually well kept if they are the original owners. They might have a single bath that can literally fit one person. In My Grandmothers house for example it's 3 bedroom but you have to walk through one bedroom to get to the other. If you look at the bedroom pictures for that house you linked too that appears to be how it is there. Electricity,plumbing and other main things usually needs updating and if you want to bring those homes up to date you're going to put a lot of money into them. For a lot of those houses if you're going to do a major renovation you're better off leveling it and starting from scratch. They might have multiple small addtions or changes over the years, patchworked electrical systems etc. When you get into something like that it's a money pit.

I bought my row house for $10k, senior-owned, sketchy neighborhood and all. The systems are older, but they work just fine. It's a totally liveable house. Dated, but nice. I strongly disagree about "leveling and starting from scratch." My belief is, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

I like this house in Pottsville. So cute! http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...7-07847?row=81

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

I like this house in Pottsville. So cute! 725 Hornung St, Pottsville, PA 17901 - Home For Sale and Real Estate Listing - realtor.com®

Something like this or this , is definitely something I would jump on if it was available around here.

[pman]

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

It hasn't really helped Johnstown or Altoona..

thats right , slow and infrequent frequent service wouldnt help. are you saying good passenger service hasnt helped Lancaster ?

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

What's wrong with having a coal door under your porch? I see them all over Pittsburgh.

Ir's a typo as I noted in my other post, I missed the word "not". In this case due to the town that house is in it might actually be in use and that is NOT necessarily a bad thing.

My belief is, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

The problem is is a lot of them are "broke". They might be 100 years old and have multiple issues from foundations, roofs and everything else under the sun. Once you start a renovation it turns into one thing after another you didn't expect.

[pman]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

...
The problem is is a lot of them are "broke". They might be 100 years old and have multiple issues from foundations, roofs and everything else under the sun. Once you start a renovation it turns into one thing after another you didn't expect.

if you know what you're doing you shouldn't have that many issues that you don't expect, at least not major ones. each house is different and there is no rule of thumb that says it's better to knock it down and start from scratch. really, it's about the sale price of the house, the existing house, and what its worth. what you are really saying is that its cheaper to knock it down and build a lower quality new house in its place. the reality is that some houses are worth saving and some are not, they can turn into money pits for people for whom it is either not their passion nor their business. certainly a coal shoot means nothing, I've been in perfect fine houses that weren't even originally built with indoor kitchens. the ones in question became worth renovating as people bought them cheap and the neighborhood appreciated significantly allowing the owners to invest a significant amount of money modernizing them. (one thing that annoys me is the installation of forced air which is really inferior to radiant heat and some see it as progress).

we can also look at lancaster where many older homes have been modernized, in comparison to philadelphia, many have generous floor plans and yards and like many older homes, sometimes contain details such as wood, tile, fireplaces that would be very expensive to duplicate.