07-22-2013, 10:58 AM
Location: The Flagship City and Vacation in the Paris of Appalachia
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Why doesn't the DOE conduct a completely random study that involves collecting unannounced samples from thousands of wells at various time intervals? It is like telling an athlete you are going to drug test him a month before the test.
07-22-2013, 11:06 AM
Location: The Flagship City and Vacation in the Paris of Appalachia
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thecoalman
First, why would anyone be against a credit for renewable energy? I would rather have every American get a "green credit" as you call it than bail out Wall Street. Read this article about renewable energy and get back to me:
American Renewable Energy Is Powering the American Energy Transformation | Dennis V. McGinn
There are many studies out there that show the cost effectiveness of wind and solar. Wave power may be even more cost effective than either wind or solar, but it can also cause some navigational hazards since the surface is the best place to collect this energy and lining the shore with "electrical buoys" is problematic. As a final point here, the fossil fuel industry has received tax credits and government benefits for years, I don't see the issue with offering the same to renewable energy.
07-22-2013, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
trackstar13
The drillers are contaminating the water by simply using it.
Actually this may work out here becsue they are going to give them incentives to use mine run off. Kill two birds with one stone and even the environmentalists are getting behind it.
Quote:
Your argument about renewable energy is wrong, and I will not expand further in this post so that the post is not too long.
But of course, I'm just wrong. If you do decide to expand on it bring your A game because I know this topic as good as anybody.
07-22-2013, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
trackstar13
thecoalman
First, why would anyone be against a credit for renewable energy?
Because that credit drives up the cost of energy to the normal ratepayers. If you have the 30K plus to invest in solar panels that's great for you but the taxpayer is paying more becsue of the tax incentives and the ratepayers is paying more because of the green credit including low income people . It's the power distributor that has to pay those fees and they pass them onto the consumer.
Quote:
There are many studies out there that show the cost effectiveness of wind and solar.
I don't want studies I want real world examples with numbers. For example that wind farm in Mass. that was in the news a few years back has a 15 year contract to sell that power for something like 20 cents per kWh and 2.5% increase each year of the contract. It will be more than 30 cents by the time the contract expires. They are able to sell it at that price becsue of mandates, instead of green credit the power distributor is buying the power. That's besides whatever tax credits they got.
Note that is the wholesale rate, in comparison you can make electric with coal or natural gas for 4 cents per kWh. That wholesale rate is even higher than the retail national average of 11.
Like I said bring your A game.
07-22-2013, 03:47 PM
Location: The Flagship City and Vacation in the Paris of Appalachia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
thecoalman
Actually this may work out here becsue they are going to give them incentives to use mine run off. Kill two birds with one stone and even the environmentalists are getting behind it.
But of course, I'm just wrong. If you do decide to expand on it bring your A game because I know this topic as good as anybody.
You still didn't answer my question about how much water is used to frack a well. What happens if we stop the fossil fuel subsidies? Also, why is Germany so advanced when it comes to renewable energy? I thought USA was #1 all the way.
Three Reasons Why Global Fossil-Fuel Subsidies Will Not Last A Generation - Forbes
Towards the end of last year the International Energy Agency announced that subsidies for fossil fuels globally had risen by 30% to $523 billion.
In Germany where renewables are furthest advanced, 37% of renewable energy generation infrastructure is owned by households.
07-22-2013, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
trackstar13
You still didn't answer my question about how much water is used to frack a well.
I don't know the exact figure but it's lot, we also have a lot of water here in PA and they do set limits on what they can take.
Quote:
What happens if we stop the fossil fuel subsidies?
You're electric bill might go up a few cents for the month and it might cost you a fraction of a penny per gallon of gasoline more. Unlike renewables the fossil fuel industry does not rely on those subsidies. Matter of fact most of the subsidies for coal are for R&D and the one for oil is for bad wells. Exxon wouldn't even blink but some of the smaller drillers might....
http://www.eia.gov/analysis/requests...df/subsidy.pdf
Quote:
Also, why is Germany so advanced when it comes to renewable energy? I thought USA was #1 all the way.
Germany has the second highest electric rates in the western world just behind Denmark. You want to guess which country leads the world in wind mill manufacturing and has the highest percentage of electric generated by wind mills? FYI Germany just announced they will be building new coal plants.
Quote:
Germany -- Insane Or Just Plain Stupid? - Forbes
...... Germany is building about 25 clean coal-fired power plants to offset the loss of nuclear and address Germany’s admittedly “unaffordably expensive and unreliable” renewable portfolio (Der Spiegel ). The German Green Party can now celebrate the opening of a 2,200 MW coal-fired power plant near Cologne. It started spewing out its annual, relatively clean , 13 million tons of CO2, and other nasties, so much lower than those older dirty coal plants that would have put out 15 million tons of CO2 for the same power output.
07-22-2013, 04:46 PM
Location: The Flagship City and Vacation in the Paris of Appalachia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
thecoalman
I don't know the exact figure but it's lot, we also have a lot of water here in PA and they do set limits on what they can take.
You're electric bill might go up a few cents for the month and it might cost you a fraction of a penny per gallon of gasoline more. Unlike renewables the fossil fuel industry does not rely on those subsidies. Matter of fact most of the subsidies for coal are for R&D and the one for oil is for bad wells. Exxon wouldn't even blink but some of the smaller drillers might....
http://www.eia.gov/analysis/requests...df/subsidy.pdf
Germany has the second highest electric rates in the western world just behind Denmark. You want to guess which country leads the world in wind mill manufacturing and has the highest percentage of electric generated by wind mills? FYI Germany just announced they will be building new coal plants.
Yeah the natural gas industry is great at following the regulations like how much water to use LOL. 1 violation found at every 3 wells since 2009 in PA, just remember that when you think about regulations and the industry. You are also only talking about the subsidies that are out in the open for fossil fuels. Look at who runs the DOE and how much money he received from BP and other companies prior to his position. As a final point are you conceding that Germany has much better technology than the U.S.?
07-22-2013, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
trackstar13
1 violation found at every 3 wells since 2009 in PA,
Having been in business for many years I can tell you that no one can not operate ANY business in this country without violating the law no matter how hard you try, it simply cannot be done. The amount of violations is irrelevant, what is important is how many of these violations were major ones?
Quote:
As a final point are you conceding that Germany has much better technology than the U.S.?
What makes you think I said that? Because they are building new coal plants?
As for your graph what is this supposed to represent and what is the source?
07-23-2013, 08:46 AM
Location: The Flagship City and Vacation in the Paris of Appalachia
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Reputation: 2066
The graph represents the known tax subsidies for fossil fuels vs. renewable energy. Notice the huge difference and the fact that fossil fuels are highly subsidized. The source is the International Energy Agency and the graph represents the international tax subsidies (U.S. included).
To answer the question you won't answer, it takes 4.4 million gallons to frack one well.
How Much Water Does It Take to Frack a Well? | StateImpact Pennsylvania
You will also noticed that 63% of the water comes from the rivers and streams of the commonwealth. In other words that is a little more than 2.5 million gallons per well that is borrowed from the commonwealth. What is the value of that water? Well according to the EPA, water is about $2 per 1,000 gallons and given the numbers of wells already that is a pretty big hidden subsidy for the natural gas companies. Not to mention the fact that using this much water could increase the prices for everyone in the near future.
http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/guidan..._dwsrf_web.pdf
07-23-2013, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
trackstar13
The graph represents the known tax subsidies for fossil fuels vs. renewable energy.
The graph is wrong, link to the source?
I'd strongly urge you to look over the these documents for accurate information from the EIA. In 2007 the subsidies for renewables was nearly 5 billion dollars and your graph represents 0?
2007:
http://www.eia.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/s...df/execsum.pdf
2010:
http://www.eia.gov/analysis/requests...df/subsidy.pdf
Quote:
Notice the huge difference and the fact that fossil fuels are highly subsidized. The source is the International Energy Agency and the graph represents the international tax subsidies (U.S. included).
Who is the International Energy Agency? The only reference I can find is some French agency. Note the bolded, what is that supposed to mean? You are either misinterpreting this graph or it's completely wrong.
Last edited by thecoalman; 07-23-2013 at 03:15 PM ..
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People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)