Pros and Cons of Pennsylvania? (Pittsburgh, Erie: transplants, 2013, insurance)

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by trackstar13

The Missouri study was much more in depth than the PA study from the first article and the National Highway Traffic Safety study seemed to refute the PA study.

From the article it says they used fatalities as a measure in the Missouri study, you can't do that on a state by state basis unless they were sub dividing where those accidents occurred. You're more likely to die in in more rural areas regardless of whether there is inspections. It takes a long time for emergency people to get their and then you have along trip to the hospital, on a side note this is also one of the reasons why the US has a high fatality rate compared to many other nations where car accidents are concerned.

The NHTS study they said was inconclusive most likely becsue of lack of data and other things like what I just mentioned.

I can honestly say that after reading the research and thinking about it, I would rather drive near the car that is poorly maintained or they fix things when they break.

You'd rather be next to the car that hasn't been looked at in years compared to my car with brand new suspension, brakes and tires all the way around? I read the part about the "Peltzman Effect"but I'm not buying it, people that are not mechanically inclined simply don't realize how bad their car been be and then you have the other crowd that just don't give a **** and are willing to take the risk.

[trackstar13]

Coalman

There are many other studies that have looked at the effectiveness of automobile inspections in terms of reducing injuries and death, otherwise known as being safe, and the results are mixed, but at best show the potential positive effects are minimal at best. The only study that seems to be a slam dunk for supporting auto safety inspections, which is interesting to say the least, is the PA study. NC did a study and the results were not favorable the auto inspection proponents, the MO study was also not good for the auto inspection folks. Most of the independent, national studies out there have also not really been favorable to the pro auto inspection folks.

In terms of the "Peltzman Effect," studies are also conflicting here, but I tend to agree with it because of my own experiences on the road. One thing you cannot deny however, is the fact the vast majority of car accidents are caused by driver error and not mechanical failure. For instance, the report linked below from NJ in 2010 is similar to the rest of the country and less than 1% of fatal crashes in NJ were due to mechanical failure.
http://www.njsp.org/info/fatalacc/20...ash_101711.pdf

P.S. 2010 was also the first year that auto inspections were discontinued in NJ and they had a big decrease in fatal car accidents with no inspections vs. when they had inspections

This national study of all 50 states and 12 years worth of data shows that automobile safety inspections do not significantly prevent injuries or fatalities. (I posted the link below and you can just read the abstract or register for a free account and read the whole thing.)

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

[jazzy jeff]

Two pro's not yet mentioned;

Retirement income is not subject to state or local income tax.

Child support stops at age 18.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by trackstar13

One thing you cannot deny however, is the fact the vast majority of car accidents are caused by driver error and not mechanical failure. For instance, the report linked below from NJ in 2010 is similar to the rest of the country and less than 1% of fatal crashes in NJ were due to mechanical failure.

I'd agree it's mostly driver error but those errors can be exacerbated by poor mechanics; poor suspension at high speeds or even slow speed, poor tires in the rain.... That's not something that is going to show up in a study.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I understand your point about getting ripped off but that can be policed better by the state without getting rid of the inspection.

[travric]

We're more down to earth and blue collar. We have history, but NY and DC have politics. Plus we neighbor New Jersey. But we do keep running water between us, God saw fit to give us a natural moat.

You know that's my impression as well. And that's why even if we've kind of jumped so-called economic classes (I am not blue-collar, my parents were) I think my background perfectly suits that Pa environment. I know this kind of sounds crazy but there's also that psychological aspect of states and what they project to prospective residents that figures alot in their moving to that state.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I understand your point about getting ripped off but that can be policed better by the state without getting rid of the inspection.

Maybe that's why it's really good to have a mechanic maybe named Joe you can TRUST? I think I've saved needless money spent by going that route. I give him and his family business and rspect his knowledge. Frankly, he knows more about cars than I do. When you're sick you go to the doctor. When you're car's sick and sounds sick, take it to Joe...;-)...

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

I'd agree it's mostly driver error but those errors can be exacerbated by poor mechanics; poor suspension at high speeds or even slow speed, poor tires in the rain.... That's not something that is going to show up in a study.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I understand your point about getting ripped off but that can be policed better by the state without getting rid of the inspection.

Okay we can agree to disagree and I am glad you at least acknowledge that driver error is the biggest issue. I am fed up with the inspection system because it seems that every time I have moved back to PA or moved to a new area in PA I have had a mechanic try to scam me during the inspection. A few times I have paid for the failed inspection and taken my car to another shop at my own expense.

My worst experience ever was when I took my car in for inspection and that same morning I was driving it in my radiator started leaking. I called AAA got the car towed there and I told the mechanic that my radiator was leaking and even showed him where. A few hours later he called me and said I would pass inspection as long as I got my radiator replaced and replaced the thermostat. I was fine until he told me that he wanted $850 to replace these items. Well I told him not to perform the work and I would come pick up the car and pay for the inspection. When I got there he tried to charge me $200 for diagnostic fees, for telling me that my radiator was leaking. This was of course in addition to the inspection fees. I told him that I would pay for the inspection and I would not pay for the diagnostic fees. He refused and said he was going to keep my car until I paid. Long story short, I paid the fees, got my car back, and sued him in small claims court after getting the car repaired elsewhere for $175 and I didn't even need a thermostat. He also had to pay me damages and my court costs so it worked out pretty well for me, but what a hassle. I mainly won because I got a letter from the tow truck driver stating that I told him my radiator was leaking and he also noticed the leak.

The point to my story is simple there is corruption within the system and this issue affects new residents much more than people who have lived in the same area for many years. I have a great mechanic in Erie and I appreciate the inspection process, but it can be very frustrating when you are new to an area and trying to find an honest mechanic.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

Inspections are important because there is so many people driving cars that are clueless when it comes to mechanics.

Inspections are a racket.

Originally Posted by trackstar13

and I for the life of me cannot understand why even after I file taxes I have to give Berkheimer my information. It seems like the government is the one who collects the taxes so they should also keep the information rather than having a private company do this for them.

That's a racket, too.

[psurangers11]

I brought up PA inspections mainly because each year I seem to always "fail" at something. This year was the absolute worst and I have a reason to gripe and unfortunately have nothing I can do about it.

Last month I took my car to a mechanic on a Saturday morning and two hours later got a call saying it failed because there was a hole in the exhaust. It would have cost nearly $300 to fix to pass... my wife and I decided not to get it fixed quite yet because we didn't have extra money. We picked up the car and we were told that everything else was fine with the car and once the exhaust was fixed it would be good to go. Great... ok... no problem.

We bring the car back a week later to get it fixed and hours later get a call telling us that something else was wrong and then that would cost another $100. Reluctently we just told them to do it...... THEN.... THEN... they test drive it after replacing what needs to be fixed and then call AGAIN telling us they heard "rattling" and found something else wrong and also "oh by the way... your front 2 tires also failed"....!!!!!

When we finally picked up the car after 3 days of nonsense and repairs I immediately asked them why all of these other issues weren't found the FIRST time we took it in. The woman had the nerve to explain to me that they were extremely busy and had only one mechanic working and as soon as he saw the one problem he immediately took the car down and moved onto the next one....!!!!! Is that even allowed???! Aren't they supposed to inspect THE WHOLE CAR during an inspection whether you find things wrong within 5 minutes??!

We spent just under $1000 when all said and done and the whole time we're paying the lady kept apologizing and trying to justify why things happened the way they did. If the state is going to require us BY LAW to get our cars inspected each year then these mechanics BY LAW need to do the job they're supposed to. Instead though it just seems they can do whatever they want and we have to take it in the rear each year.

Sorry for the rant... but things like this are why I despise getting inspections.

[travric]

Whoa, that's certainly an experience I would completely flip out on. Sorry you had to go through all that. Are you saying that it is highly likely to happen to me if I have my car inspected in anyplace in Pa???

[psurangers11]

Originally Posted by travric

Whoa, that's certainly an experience I would completely flip out on. Sorry you had to go through all that. Are you saying that it is highly likely to happen to me if I have my car inspected in anyplace in Pa???

Not at all... but when you take it to a "mom and pop shop" I guess you should always make sure to ask if they inspected the entire car or give you a report of the inspection if it fails. Previous years I always went to the major places like Jack Williams and they would at least give me a print out of EVERYTHING and listed what failed and needed to be fixed. This way I knew when I brought it back that all they'd have to do is fix those problems and then they slap the sticker on my car.

It was unfortunately just a perfect storm of crap for us. If I knew from the get-go that the car needed all those repairs we would have mulled just trading it in and getting something more reliable. By the time we brought it back though it was the end of the month and as much as I wanted to tell them to go F themselves and I'll take it for a 2nd opinion, I couldn't risk having an expired sticker and then getting pulled over for that.