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You say that as though simply being "progressive" is a virtue in and of itself.
It is a virtue in itself. I didn't mean to imply "liberal" by stating "progressive." I just meant progressive as in being "forward-thinking" or "advanced." NJ and NY seem to be constant renegades and experimentalists in regards to enacting legislation "ahead of the curve" (the no hand-held cell phones while driving and trans-fats ban in NY is a prime example) whereas PA dawdles along and is too afraid to do anything bold or controversial. We just kind of "exist" as a state to which the NJ/NY urbanites flee to for rural getaway vacations, just as how Maine is often infiltrated with MA tourists seeking the same. I'd just like to see PA buck the trend and "think outside the box" on just ONE thing for a change!
I do not think there should be any public law banning smoking in privately owned bars or restaurants. That decision should be left up to the owner. Everyone one knows the dangers of cigarette smoke, if you dont smoke, dont go in. You have that choise! The only thing that should be required if smoking is permitted is that it be posted on the entrance. I dont smoke, so I turn around and leave when there is. That is my choise.
Should it be up to the owner to comply with other health and safety rules for his/her workers? That in my opinion is the real issue, the employees. Even if they "choose" to work there, they should not have to be exposed to an unhealthy substance. Even if they smoke themselves.
I disagree with "everyone knows the dangers of cigarette smoke". Many people, including some in this discussion, try to claim that second hand smoke is not that dangerous.
[quote=Friendly_Guy;2493265]Wow, that's a great concept, but how do you determine what percentage of the population smokes?
Well here in Illinois, they say 20% of the population smokes. We wouldn't have to have an exact number. 20% is a good number. 8 out of 10 establishments would be completely non-smoking and the other 20% would be smoking. The owners of the 20% would get a special license. If less than 20% of establishments wanted to allow smoking, that would be fine too. Business owners could decide what's best for their business. Some businesses will do fine and prosper being smoke free, whereas others that have lost business, can apply for the smoking license.
Wow, that's a great concept, but how do you determine what percentage of the population smokes?
Well here in Illinois, they say 20% of the population smokes. We wouldn't have to have an exact number. 20% is a good number. 8 out of 10 establishments would be completely non-smoking and the other 20% would be smoking. The owners of the 20% would get a special license. If less than 20% of establishments wanted to allow smoking, that would be fine too. Business owners could decide what's best for their business. Some businesses will do fine and prosper being smoke free, whereas others that have lost business, can apply for the smoking license.
I repeat, what about the employees? Some of whom are not really working at a certain establishment out of their own free will. Sometimes the "choice" is work here or be jobless.
Hello, I'm a smoker and I do understand what you're saying. I guess you could say I'm a considerate smoker.
Anyway... I never wrecked my or anyone else's car from smoking while driving. I've never killed anyone while smoking and driving. Everybody gets on their high horse about tobacco. What about booze?
We ALLOW people to drink and drive ALL the time! I don't beat my wife, because I've been smoking. I don't beat my kids, because I've been smoking. I don't miss work, because I've been smoking.
If you want to drink, fine. I'm not hounding you like a second or third class citizen.
I agree smoking is bad for you. But drinking and driving is bad for ALL of us.
When I am in the same room as someone who is drinking, the act of them drinking does not damage my health and the health of everyone else in that room.
Drinking and driving, or any other addictive behavior, behavioral changes due to the substance itself, etc is not the issue. I am very much against all of those as well. But that is not the topic, and again, is simply clouding the air (much like cigarette smoke!) And no, we do NOT allow drinking and driving. Get caught, go to jail. Let me see you, I'll call you in (like the underaged drunken driver I called in between Christmas and New Years - who was .10, and is going to jail...)
As far as drinking and driving, read about Jacqueline Saburido in Texas. Don't drink and drive.
Incidentally, here is an interview with one of the most creative people of the 20th century (and my personal 'hero'), Frank Zappa, right before he died in 1992.
Please note, near the end, his belief that cigarette smoking was not all that bad, that he did not "believe" it all. (He died of prostate cancer, one of the cancers know to be associated with smoking cigarettes.)
He also discusses alcohol. Both of these are brief references, near the end, as he discusses his cancer and his 'bad days.'
The world lost a genius when he died. Just one more smoking casualty, in my opinion. He could have continued to contribute more were he still alive, possible more of his classical music compositions would have been produced.
Rest in peace, Frank...
Last edited by Friendly_Guy; 01-29-2008 at 10:25 PM..
Hello, I'm a smoker and I do understand what you're saying. I guess you could say I'm a considerate smoker.
Anyway... I never wrecked my or anyone else's car from smoking while driving. I've never killed anyone while smoking and driving. Everybody gets on their high horse about tobacco. What about booze?
We ALLOW people to drink and drive ALL the time! I don't beat my wife, because I've been smoking. I don't beat my kids, because I've been smoking. I don't miss work, because I've been smoking.
If you want to drink, fine. I'm not hounding you like a second or third class citizen.
I agree smoking is bad for you. But drinking and driving is bad for ALL of us.
What about booze? I drink (occasionally and moderately) and I've never wrecked my car because of drinking. But I have lost a family member to lung cancer at a young age due to smoking. My kids don't have a grandmother due to smoking.
As for your comment "we ALLOW people to drink and drive," no we don't. There are laws on the books concerning DUI, and people are prosecuted for drunk driving all the time.
You say you don't beat your wife or kids from smoking? I do not do those things either from drinking. You've never missed work due to smoking? If you keep smoking, you're bound to miss lots of work from cancer, heart disease, or emphysema. Although I drink, its never caused me to miss work.
The difference is that alcohol can be consumed in a responsible manner with no negative effects on one's health (there is even some evidence that moderate drinking can be beneficial), but smoking can not be done in a respoonsible manner. It is addicting to anyone who starts doing it, and it is hazardous and cancerous. Drinking is only addicting to certain people predisposed to alcoholism.
That, plus the topic of the thread is "Would You Be In Favor of a Statewide Public Smoking Ban?".
Note it is public smoking we are taling about. Not smoking in the privacy of your own home.
I personally think the benefits of moderate alcohol drinking have not been well proven, but that is beside the point when we are talking about smoking.
I personally do think that smoking should also be outlawed in someone's home if they have children. I think smoking in any enclosed environment where there are children who have no choice to go somewhere else, should be illegal.
I personally can not figure out WHY some people smoke in their homes and cars with children, even babies, with them. Are these smokers either that dumb, ignorant, or lazy? How hard is it for them to step outside to smoke rather than forcing their kids to breathe in their smoke?
Hello, I'm a smoker and I do understand what you're saying. I guess you could say I'm a considerate smoker.
Anyway... I never wrecked my or anyone else's car from smoking while driving. I've never killed anyone while smoking and driving. Everybody gets on their high horse about tobacco. What about booze?
We ALLOW people to drink and drive ALL the time! I don't beat my wife, because I've been smoking. I don't beat my kids, because I've been smoking. I don't miss work, because I've been smoking.
If you want to drink, fine. I'm not hounding you like a second or third class citizen.
I agree smoking is bad for you. But drinking and driving is bad for ALL of us.
Not sure where you get your info but "WE" do not allow drinking and driving. It's against the law. Drinking and driving can lead to damaging someone's health, therefore there are laws against it . If you were to get in a bus and the driver was doing shots of booze... wouldn't you complain? Or would you not hound him like a second or third class citizen.
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Welcome to City-Data.com forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with 700,000 other registered members. User profiles and some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your free account you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 15,000 posts/day about local topics and you will see fewer ads. 
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