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My husband recently took a new job in NW PA and found a home for rent w/ option to buy for our family. The kids and I won't be moving up there until the end of the school year from SC and we had originally hoped to buy the home from the owners, but are already having second thoughts. The owners are asking about 40K more than the average home in the area, but the house has more amenities than most houses there (extensive landscaping, thermal windows, vinyl siding, composite decking etc.), running a comp for the area was difficult because of all of the add-ons this place has.
The house does not have any appliances and we knew that going in and plan on purchasing our own. Husband moved in a bout a week ago and found several recently replaced outlets left out on the counters. All of the old outlets had scorch marks and the plastic had melted. The hubby purchased an outlet tester just to be safe and so far has only had time to check a few outlets on the first floor. Two tested correct and all the rest tested "open ground", we know that pre-1960 houses weren't always grounded, but why would some be grounded and others are not? Could this be a serious fire hazard that needs to be addressed immediately, or is this one of those quirky old house things?
We also found out that there is no outlet for the stove, no gas line, nothing. Just an empty square cut into the wall where a 220/240 should be. The owners stated that the stove was hooked up for elec, but there is no where to plug a stove in. We checked the basement below the kitchen and there aren't even any wires running up to where the stove is, just the empty hole. This is not addressed at all in the lease and the owners never mentioned it. I get that we need to provide a stove, but what are we supposed to do if there is no way to power it? I have done brief searches online for costs to install that outlet and it's not pretty. Is that a cost the owner should incur or are we expected to cover that? We have kids, we have to be able to cook!
On top of that the sinks in the house keep backing up. Husband has had problems with one side of kitchen sink, 1st floor bath sink and 2nd floor bath sink. He's gotten some gunk out of the drains so far, but how do we know if this is a weird coincidental clog in multiple locations at different locations or if a whole house plumbing issue?
Finally, the fireplace was converted to gas and the chimney sealed and covered on the roof (i.e. no visible chimney from the outside). We noticed in the attic that the chimney is leaning, about 4 inches. Was brick, but someone covered it with concrete up there. The ceiling shows visible damage from the lean and it looks as though repairs have been attempted over the years. The attic is partially finished with a few individual rooms and there is an open air rafter area above the damaged ceiling. We have not been able to get up there to inspect the lean above the ceiling and to see if there is any damage to the roof. The damage was not wet and there did not look like there was any water damage to the ceiling. Short of hiring a structural engineer is there anyway to find out if it is stable? Owner expense or tenant expense? We really don't want to worry about the weight of winter snow causing the chimney to lean even more and rip a giant hole in the roof.
We were told the last tenant left abruptly after only 8 months and that she was "crazy", which now seems like it may have been a red flag. Just can't figure out why anyone would spend thousands on things like vinyl siding and thermal windows and neglect something like wiring, plumbing or structural defects. I have sent an email to the owners addressing the issues and they have confirmed receipt of the email via text, but have yet to actually respond to the concerns.
By the time the kids and I move up there, we will only have a few months left on the lease, we do not want to move only to have to move again when the lease is up. We don't know PA tenant laws.
Northwest PA is a big area. Mind telling us the name of the town?
If the house is not as stated by the landlord and may be in violation of fire and safety codes, you have cause to break the lease. I doubt if the landlord will take you to court, but if he does, take photos and splurge on a certified home inspector who will then issue a report on the condition of the house.
I would enlist the services of a real estate person on your behalf. Someone who will guide you through the process of making right on this home before you actually sign a purchase agreement. There has to be someone out there that will represent you. Here are some suggestions~
Real estate agent who is knowledgeable about rent to own contracts.
County Housing Authority will tell you what your rights are as a tenant/renter with regard to these specific issues; wiring, plumbing, fireplace ventilation etc.
Hire a certified home inspector or have an appraisal done (might be a few hundred dollars, but will go through every nook and cranny and submit a written report, along with estimate for repair). This would most likely be required if/when you were to get a mortgage on this property, but you can have it done ahead of time.
Document, document, take pictures and document everything in writing.
Start looking for a house, let landlord know that you won't be renewing or extending the lease.
All of the old outlets had scorch marks and the plastic had melted. The hubby purchased an outlet tester just to be safe and so far has only had time to check a few outlets on the first floor. Two tested correct and all the rest tested "open ground", we know that pre-1960 houses weren't always grounded, but why would some be grounded and others are not?
There could be a couple or reasons for that, they may have rewired the damaged outlets and let the others one go. Another possibility is wiring in homes of that age are often shielded with flexible metal casing but only have two wires. You're not supposed too but the casing can be used for the ground in which case you have faulty connection.
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I have done brief searches online for costs to install that outlet and it's not pretty. Is that a cost the owner should incur or are we expected to cover that? We have kids, we have to be able to cook!
That's something that should be the homeowners responsibility, you're not taking it with you if you leave.
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Short of hiring a structural engineer is there anyway to find out if it is stable?
If you can't make that determination yourself you need either engineer or competent contractor.
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Owner expense or tenant expense?
Unless you own the house or have some kind of agreement for price reduction if you buy none of it is your responsibility.
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Just can't figure out why anyone would spend thousands on things like vinyl siding and thermal windows and neglect something like wiring, plumbing or structural defects.
Rewiring or replumbing a house can be very expensive because you often have to to do a lot of damage cutting holes into walls etc. A wire that takes 10 minutes to install in new construction might take hours. That's something you usually try and schedule with full renovation of a room or the whole house when the wring is exposed.
Thanks everyone. I guess we're just trying to figure out what's the difference between normal old house issues and other more serious problems. I've had friends here in Charleston who own homes this old and as long as they have stayed on top of things and had good contractors there hasn't been an issue, but on the same token I've seen neglected homes that were nightmares. We were warned by the hubby's co-workers that there are some less-than honest landlords in the area who will completely rip people off, so we have been searching for quite a while for a suitable place.
This home has been remodeled several times. New flooring, new bathrooms, new kitchen, all of the outlets are 3-prong and there are cable jacks installed in all the main areas. Hubby tested more outlets last night in the kitchen and they all coded correct. Which just adds to the mystery. I told him he needs to physically check the outlets that are coding open ground and we'll go from there. Flip off the circuit, remove the plate and see whats going on back there. Could be a crap handyman who just didn't hook up the ground. No clue what could have caused the scorched outlets though. He let the sinks soak in drano and plunged the heck out of the kitchen, they are now draining. The toilets aren't backing up, so we're hoping for the best that it's not a systemic problem.
At this point we are just renters, and did plan on having a full inspection before we purchase. We love this house and are trying to stay optimistic about it. We know that all old houses require work to some extent, but if it needs a 60k remodel there will have to be some serious negotiating.
One more question though, if the issues are the owners responsibility to repair, are these issues that the owner HAS to repair? I know in some parts of the south, landlords are not required to repair A/C, even though it's as much a necessity in the summer here as heat is in the winter in PA. Every state has their own requirements for landlords. I'm pretty sure PA requires landlords to fix heat, but are they required to fix wiring, or leaning tower of pisa chimneys? If the owner doesn't get back to us, can we call an electrician and deduct the costs from our rent (if he finds a problem)? That whole withholding rent thing is foreign to us.
One more question though, if the issues are the owners responsibility to repair, are these issues that the owner HAS to repair? I know in some parts of the south, landlords are not required to repair A/C, even though it's as much a necessity in the summer here as heat is in the winter in PA. Every state has their own requirements for landlords. I'm pretty sure PA requires landlords to fix heat, but are they required to fix wiring, or leaning tower of pisa chimneys? If the owner doesn't get back to us, can we call an electrician and deduct the costs from our rent (if he finds a problem)? That whole withholding rent thing is foreign to us.
In PA, the party responsible for repairs of whatever kind is stated in the lease. This also applies to a heating system where the tenant pays for whatever fuel supplies the heating. See below.
Thanks everyone. I guess we're just trying to figure out what's the difference between normal old house issues and other more serious problems. I've had friends here in Charleston who own homes this old and as long as they have stayed on top of things and had good contractors there hasn't been an issue, but on the same token I've seen neglected homes that were nightmares. We were warned by the hubby's co-workers that there are some less-than honest landlords in the area who will completely rip people off, so we have been searching for quite a while for a suitable place.
This home has been remodeled several times. New flooring, new bathrooms, new kitchen, all of the outlets are 3-prong and there are cable jacks installed in all the main areas. Hubby tested more outlets last night in the kitchen and they all coded correct. Which just adds to the mystery. I told him he needs to physically check the outlets that are coding open ground and we'll go from there. Flip off the circuit, remove the plate and see whats going on back there. Could be a crap handyman who just didn't hook up the ground. No clue what could have caused the scorched outlets though. He let the sinks soak in drano and plunged the heck out of the kitchen, they are now draining. The toilets aren't backing up, so we're hoping for the best that it's not a systemic problem.
At this point we are just renters, and did plan on having a full inspection before we purchase. We love this house and are trying to stay optimistic about it. We know that all old houses require work to some extent, but if it needs a 60k remodel there will have to be some serious negotiating.
One more question though, if the issues are the owners responsibility to repair, are these issues that the owner HAS to repair? I know in some parts of the south, landlords are not required to repair A/C, even though it's as much a necessity in the summer here as heat is in the winter in PA. Every state has their own requirements for landlords. I'm pretty sure PA requires landlords to fix heat, but are they required to fix wiring, or leaning tower of pisa chimneys? If the owner doesn't get back to us, can we call an electrician and deduct the costs from our rent (if he finds a problem)? That whole withholding rent thing is foreign to us.
What you described is not normal. Just be happy that you didn't actually buy the house.
One more question though, if the issues are the owners responsibility to repair, are these issues that the owner HAS to repair? I know in some parts of the south, landlords are not required to repair A/C, even though it's as much a necessity in the summer here as heat is in the winter in PA. Every state has their own requirements for landlords. I'm pretty sure PA requires landlords to fix heat, but are they required to fix wiring, or leaning tower of pisa chimneys? If the owner doesn't get back to us, can we call an electrician and deduct the costs from our rent (if he finds a problem)? That whole withholding rent thing is foreign to us.
You shouldn't be responsible for any of it. If the chimney is stable, I wouldn't think the landlord would be obligated to repair it, but report anything you see to your landlord.
Your landlord is absolutely required to repair the electrical system; it's a safety issue. The ability to connect a stove is a habitation issue that the landlord should be responsible for. Repairing and deducting is legal, especially for the stove hookup, but you have to give the landlord advance notice. Other first steps may be needed.
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