What are Harrisburg's Peer Cities? (Pittsburgh, Scranton: 2015, crime rates, home)

[ki0eh]

In terms of city limits, Binghamton NY has some resemblances to Harrisburg, though there are significant differences in urban form between the southern PA model and even the jumbled/densified upstate NY model exemplified by Binghamton.

On an urban area basis, Syracuse is not a bad analogy. However, Syracuse itself has more expansive city limits, and a different urban form. Harrisburg area is decidedly more economically prosperous - besides the anchor of the state, it also serves as a logistics base for the nearby megalopolis. Meds are about the same (SUNY Upstate vs. Penn State Hershey) although Syracuse has an arguable edge in eds (Syracuse University, vs. what? Messiah College? Penn State Harrisburg?).

Albany is an interesting comparison. The surrounding Harrisburg region is far more politically conservative than the Hudson Valley. Row house form of urban development is similar although the houses themselves look different. Frequent train service to NYC is a common factor, although station locations must make a difference. Halfway there being Philadelphia rather than Poughkeepsie could add further differences. Adding Lancaster and York to Harrisburg adds up to more than taking Schenectady and Troy with Albany. However, due to greater inter-city distances in the comparable triangle, the 717 LHY lacks the coherent focus for quality retail development that the 518 AST has. The greater distances also creates more political de-focus opportunities in the 717 LHY, with separate transit authorites, separate planning and visitor bureaus, etc. The even greater fractionation of local government in PA, where townships/boroughs/cities are little kingdoms less trammelled by counties than NY's towns/villages/cities, does not help build tri-city consensus either.

[ProkNo5]

Harrisburg and Peoria, IL always remind me of each other. They're similarly sized metro areas with similarly sized skylines, airports, urban areas, etc.

[ProkNo5]

Des Moines, IA is also a decent peer. Both state capitals, similarly sized metros, big state fair/farm show complex. The big difference though is that Des Moines has a larger University and economy due to the large insurance companies headquartered there. Des Moines feels a bit more well off that HBG.

[g500]

Really loving the feedback from you guys. Des Moines and HBG are both state capitals, same size urban area. Des Moines skyline seems bigger than HBG's. Des Moines has a really tall building 801 Grand Ave which really changes it up. Des Moines is a bit more dense as an urban area, and is even more comparable with Madison WI (another midwestern capital city).

Peoria, IL skyline is VERY comparable, only HBG has the state capital. Both have a river! Peoria doesn't have quite as much urban sprawl as HBG and is probably closer to the Reading PA metro in size.

[g500]

Ki0eh I agree with your analysis. LHY 717 may not happen for many, many years, and it may never happen. There is about 3 miles of undeveloped space between each point in the triangle. Each of the downtowns is at the closest over 26 miles apart. The real question is: do they act as one labor market? Yes, to a certain extent, with Harrisburg being the focal point having the state government and related government entities. That being said, there is much to be done for them to be considered a true urban form (blob) as the 518 AST is. One would be mass transit and the other is retail focus. It seems like Harrisburg and Lebanon PA could be combined as an urban area in the future since they share a bus line, but that is really all. For that reason I would have to say that Albany UA is obviously bigger than Harrisburg UA, and will be bigger for quite at least the next 20+ years. Therefore Albany probably isn't quite a peer city and is in fact a half step up.

[ki0eh]

Des Moines I think has more independent city feel than Harrisburg due to greater distances to both comps (Quad Cities, Omaha) and major-league cities (KC, MSP, Chicago, StL). It's both capital and largest city in Iowa, largest within-Iowa metro, so will have different dynamics than Harrisburg. It has an Apple store.

Peoria might reach similar feel through different paths. Its river is more economically useful than the Susquehanna. Caterpillar ranking much higher on the Fortune 500 than Hershey, would make up much vs. not being either a capital or largest city.

Another point in the 518 AST's favor is universities. RPI, SUNY-Albany, Union outclass what the 717 LHY offers though Skidmore might be comp to F&M. Tuning the FM radios from 88 to 92 MHz in the respective areas shows off educational and political differences. Alas, REI hasn't seem to have concluded yet that the 518 AST is more worthy than the 717 LHY.

[g500]

Technically part of the Philadelphia urban area, Wilmington DE might be a good peer for Harrisburg?

[ki0eh]

Originally Posted by g500

Technically part of the Philadelphia urban area, Wilmington DE might be a good peer for Harrisburg?

In what sense? Wilmington seems tough for me to categorize similarly, between tax-free shopping, a different sense of proximity, the nature of its financial services, etc.

[g500]

Since Wilmington is part of the Philadelphia urban area it is probably a bad example.

Just trying to think of another urban area that really lines up with Harrisburg, but that also has a similar city proper, urban form, and regional significance.

So far we've got Trenton and Lancaster PA as good peer cities of Harrisburg. Any other(s) you could possibly suggest?

[PreservationPioneer]

How about Lansing, Michigan, or Springfield, IL or Fort Wayne, IN?