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Old 02-28-2017, 03:54 PM
 
4,089 posts, read 2,870,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post
While "Greater Center City" does stretch North and South, it does not include points West of the Schuylkill. That would be tantamount to calling the South Side the "Greater East End." Developers have tried to brand points by 30th Station the "smart side of Center City," but it has not (and almost certainly will not) pass over into common parlance.

Even if one does stretch the "Center City" label as absurdly broad as possible, I also don't see how it delegitimizes improvement and positive growth in other neighborhoods. The East End analogy is apt.

Lest you think I'm dodging your brilliant retorts, I am not responding to this incoherent wall of text. If you want to hear my thoughts, try limiting it to the points addressed in my quoted post.
No need to. "comp" pretty thoroughly addressed my reply part to your previous post. You can then reply to another instead and mine on UC was answered and cleared up civilly. As to UC is more then just University related happening and buildings going up there. Clearly a campus and related buildings for the Universities is a large part. Just not all, as still a real neighborhood is still there and Philly's Tech growth centered there today. Ok Just to be annexed as a additional part of the CBD of Philly? I'm not sure as some have inferred on C-D already. As of now it isn't.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:03 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
8,928 posts, read 11,998,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
No need to. "comp" pretty thoroughly addressed my reply part to your previous post. You can then reply to another instead and mine on UC was answered and cleared up civilly. As to UC is more then just University related happening and buildings going up there. Clearly a campus and related buildings for the Universities is a large part. Just not all, as still a real neighborhood is still there and Philly's Tech growth centered there today. Ok
Assuming that I am understanding you correctly...

...I never said colleges and universities were the exclusive vehicle for growth, but they're predominantly responsible for the Area's past, present, and future. I suppose there is more non-university related development than Oakland, but U City also covers a larger area. I'm not sure what you mean by "real" neighborhood. Student enclaves are no more or less "authentic" than young professional, family oriented, or empty nester areas. But there's more diversity in age, background, etc. in nearby Spruce Hill, Clark Park, Cedar Park, especially toward Baltimore Avenue, if that's what you're getting at.

To respond to your additional edit, no, U City will probably never be covered by the Center City umbrella because it's across a river, and neighborhoods are loathe to cross major bodies of water. It's the same reason the South Side and North Side are not, and cannot, be the Greater East End.

It is possible that with the continued commercial growth in the far eastern reaches, there could be a mini major corporate CBD by the Ciras at al. Ironically enough, that would probably encourage similar commercial growth on the eastern edge of the Schuylkill, which isn't as bustling as the rest of Center City.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:11 PM
 
5,805 posts, read 9,478,634 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
And BB acts as if all of Philadelphia is a wasteland outside of CC. There are tons of neighborhoods in the Northeast, southern and western sections of Philadelphia that are perfectly stable. They aren't seeing big time development but that doesn't automatically make them a cesspool ghetto. Look at Chestnut Hill, one of the most charming neighborhoods in the state! There isn't much building going on (been some as of late) because there are is perfectly fine as is.
Yea, Philly's neighborhoods are on a real upswing ..... Chestnut Hill is pretty nice, pretty much the Squirrel Hill North of Philadelphia, but much further away from the core, acts more like a Suburb than a city neighborhood.



Map shows history, geography of Philadelphia's deepening poverty | PhillyVoice
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Center City
7,532 posts, read 9,623,036 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212 View Post
Ummm except for Bullet #25 ... Those are all within the Greater Center City region ... Girard to Washington U City to Delaware River.

Show me Developments happening out in North Philly, Olney, Germantown, Frankford, NorthEast, Bridesburg. Southwest Philly...
Re-read Post 535 for some salient insight.

Further:

I can assure you that the project on N Broad a couple blocks north of Girard is not considered "Greater CC" by most, even if not you. Here's another project further up the road in Norh Philly announced just today by the Inky (this was already posted by RoW on one of the previous pages which you must have missed): Blighted Beury Building may be the next North Broad Street comeback tale. I hope even you would concede that Erie and North Broad cannot in any way be considered Center City.

I would also remind you that the 26 properties listed in my link are only those characterized as highrises by Curbed Philly. Lots of non-high rise development is occurring outside "Greater CC." Here's one in Kensington announced a few weeks back: http://philly.curbed.com/2017/2/3/14...ng-information. Here's another in Germantown, announced just a few days ago: Revitalization of a historic YWCA brings hope for more change in Germantown.

I'm fairly convinced that there is little information I could share that would move you to acknowledge that development is occurring outside CC, however, so it's not worth my effort to try. If you truly want to see more, skim through this thread, currently with over 4000 posts: Philadelphia 2035. If you don't care to acknowledge it, however, that's on you.

Last edited by Pine to Vine; 02-28-2017 at 05:02 PM..
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:18 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
8,928 posts, read 11,998,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212 View Post
Yea, Philly's neighborhoods are on a real upswing ..... Chestnut Hill is pretty nice, pretty much the Squirrel Hill North of Philadelphia, but much further away from the core, acts more like a Suburb than a city neighborhood.



Map shows history, geography of Philadelphia's deepening poverty | PhillyVoice
Chestnut Hill, Mt. Airy, Manayunk, Roxborough, East Falls... even historic Germantown is getting much better. I'll also do you a solid and point out that Squirrel Hill may be more expensive than Chestnut Hill these days because it has decently-regarded public schools. Chestnut Hill also doesn't have the affluent Orthodox Jewish population that will pay a premium to be near religious amenities/institutions regardless of public school quality. That's annexed mostly to Merion, Bala-Cynwyd, Wynnewood, and Penn Wynne, outside the city limits, but which, ironically enough, boast some of the best public schools in the Commonwealth.

Also, a 1970-2015 map doesn't prove your point (I bet Pittsburgh would far no better, just like most other major cities). Try a post-rock bottom map (or at least a map that starts at rock bottom) so that it can actually measure recent gains.

Last edited by ElijahAstin; 02-28-2017 at 04:27 PM..
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Old 02-28-2017, 06:13 PM
 
9 posts, read 6,720 times
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Ard so I am from Philadelphia and currently have been living in Pittsburgh for the past few years and here is what I have to say.

Philadelphia is a much bigger city and it is very evident. Pittsburgh has a very weak public transit system consisting of busses and two trolley lines. Downtown Pittsburgh is completely dead after 5 pm. I've seen more people in Center City at midnight on a cold night than in Downtown Pittsburgh at 8 on a nice friday. Downtown Pittsburgh is completely cut off from the rest of the city because the city thought it was a smart idea to tear down the lower hill.

There is an insane building boom in Center City but make no mistake virtually every neighborhood is seeing some sort of development whether it be Manayunk, Germantown, Fishtown, South Philadelphia, etc.

A lot of Pittsburgh feels very desolate and depressing especially neighborhoods like the Hill, Hazelwood, Larimer, Homewood, Allentown. I classify Pittsburgh as a large town where Philadelphia fits the description of a truly cosmopolitan city. Go to the area around Rittenhouse square on a nice weekend and tell me anywhere in Pittsburgh that compares.

On another note there is much more diversity in Philadelphia where the only neighborhoods that have significant diversity in Pittsburgh are near Pitt and CMU which is expected of college areas.

Pittsburgh does have beautiful parks though and I think Schenely and Frick parks are some of the most beautiful large (larger than squares) urban parks I've ever seen.
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Old 02-28-2017, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
12,256 posts, read 6,795,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RightonWalnut View Post
"Greater Center City" is such an absurd term.

Northern Liberties, Spring Arts, Poplar, Spring Garden, Fairmount and Francisville are in North Philadelphia. They are not a part of Center City.

Reversely, Graduate Hospital, Hawthorne, Bella Vista and Queen Village are 100% South Philadelphia, not Center City.

University City is West Philadelphia, not Center City. I will post updates later on every neighborhood outside of Philadelphia.
The reason the Center City District ropes the adjacent North and South Philly neighborhoods in zip codes 19123, 19130, 19146 and 19147 (the latter two of which extend two blocks into Center City proper, as their northern boundary is Pine Street) into what it calls "Greater Center City" is because the spillover development from Center City's resurgence has improved those areas as well. Keep in mind that the real estate folks were calling Graduate Hospital "Southwest Center City" not all that long ago for similar reasons. "SoSo" (South of South, the name of the neighborhood's civic association/RCO) doesn't seem to catch on. And for that matter, "Graduate Hospital" is a bit of a misnomer too, for the former hospital lies across South Street from the community.

We do note that Fishtown (19125) is outside of "Greater Center City" and that the CCD has never included University City in it either, even though the eds and meds have made it the city's second-biggest employment hub.
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:03 PM
 
4,089 posts, read 2,870,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post
Assuming that I am understanding you correctly...

...I never said colleges and universities were the exclusive vehicle for growth, but they're predominantly responsible for the Area's past, present, and future. I suppose there is more non-university related development than Oakland, but U City also covers a larger area. I'm not sure what you mean by "real" neighborhood. Student enclaves are no more or less "authentic" than young professional, family oriented, or empty nester areas. But there's more diversity in age, background, etc. in nearby Spruce Hill, Clark Park, Cedar Park, especially toward Baltimore Avenue, if that's what you're getting at.

To respond to your additional edit, no, U City will probably never be covered by the Center City umbrella because it's across a river, and neighborhoods are loathe to cross major bodies of water. It's the same reason the South Side and North Side are not, and cannot, be the Greater East End.

It is possible that with the continued commercial growth in the far eastern reaches, there could be a mini major corporate CBD by the Ciras at al. Ironically enough, that would probably encourage similar commercial growth on the eastern edge of the Schuylkill, which isn't as bustling as the rest of Center City.
Just on you saying the Schuylkill river kills CC encroaching into UC? It really shouldn't matter. It being especially a far narrower river then the Delaware and CC as the "Central Business District" is a few neighborhoods to begin with as "Philly's Center City" anyway. The Schuylkill river is still no wall to stop it.

I know to mention another city is cringed upon. But Chicago has a smallish river dividing its Loop district on 2-sides on its west and north. But clearly downtown decades ago, was formally declared absorbing its River North neighborhood and Streeterville to a couple blocks into the Gold Coast today. Both areas being north of the Chicago river. It's not just the Loop as the "Central Business District" though still its greatest part of it in business. To the west of the Loop is a branch of the same river too. The downtown and CBD was extended to the expressway a few blocks yet further west. The expressway is probably more a wall then the river by far.

Clearly shows Chicago's downtown split in half by the river and extended west a few blocks.
http://www.toolboxinc.com/sites/defa...?itok=0c9I6pPu

I'd see it as no obstacle either whatsoever, to have another business district evolve as you noted. I would think it would need to be substantial? Not just some Tech area.

Maybe Philly is different? But even just a corridor into UC and open up to a Tech region and be declared part of CC in the future? If it evolves to be seen that way. There are whole cities that grow around a suburb or around unincorporated areas, as it grows to meet them. In Chicago I lived and with suburbs I was familiar with. The city also has a corridor along a expressway for a couple miles to O'Hare to be part of the city.

Shows the conjoined suburbs of Norridge/Harwood Heights in yellow (upper left) as NOT part of the city. The gray with circle of O'Hare is part of the city.
http://worldmapsphotos.com/wp-conten...photos-PDF.jpg

Atlanta has its Midtown and downtown growing together as one CBD already today. But its Bucktown northern financial area is not part of its CBD yet if it will? Houston declares more then one CBD now. Though most see one main one of course.
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Old 02-28-2017, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
12,256 posts, read 6,795,164 times
Reputation: 8842
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post

It is possible that with the continued commercial growth in the far eastern reaches, there could be a mini major corporate CBD by the Ciras at al. Ironically enough, that would probably encourage similar commercial growth on the eastern edge of the Schuylkill, which isn't as bustling as the rest of Center City.
1. If Drexel and Brandywine Realty Trust build out Schuylkill Yards to its full extent, that "mini-major corporate CBD" will be exactly what you will have around 30th Street Station, only it will be more research/tech-oriented than corporate-oriented, and it will be a live/work/play environment much like what West Market Street is slowly morphing into.

2. Heard about the new Aramark headquarters going in atop (and incorporating) the Marketplace Design Center? Plans are also proceeding for new residential/commercial at 23d and Race.

3. I've heard talk about how all this will make the Schuylkill more of a common thread than a barrier.
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Old 03-01-2017, 09:40 AM
 
5,805 posts, read 9,478,634 times
Reputation: 3051
Quote:
Originally Posted by abjlife View Post
Ard so I am from Philadelphia and currently have been living in Pittsburgh for the past few years and here is what I have to say.

Philadelphia is a much bigger city and it is very evident. Pittsburgh has a very weak public transit system consisting of busses and two trolley lines. Downtown Pittsburgh is completely dead after 5 pm. I've seen more people in Center City at midnight on a cold night than in Downtown Pittsburgh at 8 on a nice friday. Downtown Pittsburgh is completely cut off from the rest of the city because the city thought it was a smart idea to tear down the lower hill.

There is an insane building boom in Center City but make no mistake virtually every neighborhood is seeing some sort of development whether it be Manayunk, Germantown, Fishtown, South Philadelphia, etc.

A lot of Pittsburgh feels very desolate and depressing especially neighborhoods like the Hill, Hazelwood, Larimer, Homewood, Allentown. I classify Pittsburgh as a large town where Philadelphia fits the description of a truly cosmopolitan city. Go to the area around Rittenhouse square on a nice weekend and tell me anywhere in Pittsburgh that compares.

On another note there is much more diversity in Philadelphia where the only neighborhoods that have significant diversity in Pittsburgh are near Pitt and CMU which is expected of college areas.

Pittsburgh does have beautiful parks though and I think Schenely and Frick parks are some of the most beautiful large (larger than squares) urban parks I've ever seen.
Thanks Philly Booster. You're not in Pittsburgh, nice try though.

Why do Philly boosters need to lie in order to validate Philadelphia.
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