Philadelphia vs Pittsburgh (Allentown, Bethlehem, California: square footage, activities, estate)

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

This can't be right, can it? .... I thought Philly was supposed to be "Booming" and Pittsburgh is just "Standing Still" - Per RoW ... So the difference between "Booming" and "Standing Still" is just by factor of "4"

Just give it a rest already, my god, you are so annoying!!!!


And keep in mind any sustainable growth that helped to offset the losses in Pa are from the Philadelphia area! Montgomery and Philadelphia counties along with Lancaster, Lehigh and to a lesser extent Chester County were the fastest growing. The only county in the Philly area to lose was Bucks.


So once again you need to check yourself, because you can see first hand that Pittsburgh is losing people metro wide YET you still ATTEMPT to make the Philadelphia area look bad and totally ignore the fact that Allegheny County had the largest population loss in the state.


And until now we were all having a civil discussion as to the reasons for slow growth and/or loss, then you come back with some stupid crap to throw the discussion.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by speagles84

Chester County and Butler County are so shocking. Chester must be having serious decline out in the rural western portion of the county. It has consistently been the fastest growing (numerical, not percentage) in the state for a long time.

Butler County has nearly added ~20,000 people per decade since the 1940s and now is almost flat growth? Makes no sense. Cranberry Township is the fastest growing Township in the state - Northern Butler County must be shedding people as well to counter the growth around Cranberry and Seven Fields.

The western half of Chester County is still very rural, so the development game may be slow to catch up out there since it is further separated from the region. The eastern portion of the county is largely built out, and the remaining open space is under preservation battles.


For example a 400 acre farm in Chester County near the border of Delaware County is in a big legal battle because Toll Brothers wants to build 400 homes, yet the wealthy residents of the Chadds Ford area are going to every length to stop it.

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

Adaptive reuse on Pittsburgh's South Side.

Long-shuttered St. Casimir Church will be resurrected as 22nd St. Residences - NEXTpittsburgh

I really like the adaptive reuses happening in Pittsburgh. Similar projects are happening in Philadelphia with these church conversions.

Here was one done a few years back in the Graduate Hospital neighborhood of South Philly:
Sanctuary Lofts

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by speagles84

Chester County and Butler County are so shocking. Chester must be having serious decline out in the rural western portion of the county. It has consistently been the fastest growing (numerical, not percentage) in the state for a long time.

Butler County has nearly added ~20,000 people per decade since the 1940s and now is almost flat growth? Makes no sense. Cranberry Township is the fastest growing Township in the state - Northern Butler County must be shedding people as well to counter the growth around Cranberry and Seven Fields.

I think it's a few things:

1. Apparently the census was over-estimating the population growth of the entire country. Therefore, this year was a "correction" year to correct the overestimation in population growth. It's still possible that Philadelphia, MontCo, Butler County, etc. are still growing at the same clip as they have been since 2010, but they were being overestimated. We won't know for sure until the 2017 population numbers are released next March.

2. Immigration is slowing down. The thing keeping a lot of the Northeast afloat was immigration, as there has been a negative domestic migration in the Northeast for a few decades now, as people have been moving South and West. Immigration was expected to slow down with the Trump administration coming in.

3. These are 100% estimates.. basically educated guesses. It's very possible the Northeast is being under-estimated, and the South is being overestimated, just like it was before the 2010 census. We won't know TRUE population growth numbers until 2020. This is when the census literally counts everybody, instead of guessing and estimating.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by RightonWalnut

2. Immigration is slowing down. The thing keeping a lot of the Northeast afloat was immigration, as there has been a negative domestic migration in the Northeast for a few decades now, as people have been moving South and West. Immigration was expected to slow down with the Trump administration coming in.

But Donald Trump was not the president on July 1, 2016. Furthermore, everybody in high places was convinced that his opponent was going to win anyway.

[RightonWalnut]

Cool pic I took yesterday of a cluster of highrises under construction in Center City. The buildings are:

The Alexander - 32 floor, 370 foot luxury apartment building with ground floor retail. Being built by the Mormons.

One Franklin Tower - 24 floor, 272 foot building with 300,000 square feet of office space topped by luxury apartments, and ground floor retail. Being built by PMC

Comcast Technology Center - 60 floor, 1,121 foot building with office space 100% leased by Comcast, topped by a Four Seasons hotel and ground floor retail.

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by RightonWalnut

I really like the adaptive reuses happening in Pittsburgh. Similar projects are happening in Philadelphia with these church conversions.

Here was one done a few years back in the Graduate Hospital neighborhood of South Philly:
Sanctuary Lofts

I am hoping this East Liberty church can be saved. There have been numerous attempts over the years. It is now surrounded by new development so hopefully is will be saved.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/La...133816!6m1!1e1

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by Craziaskowboi

But Donald Trump was not the president on July 1, 2016. Furthermore, everybody in high places was convinced that his opponent was going to win anyway.

Correct, but that's what people are saying. That is the one I believe the least. I think that the areas were either truly being overestimated for population growth, and this is a revision of that overestimation, or Philadelphia and Pittsburgh are really being under-estimated, like they were before the 2010 census.

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

I am hoping this East Liberty church can be saved. There have been numerous attempts over the years. It is now surrounded by new development so hopefully is will be saved.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/La...133816!6m1!1e1

The more beautiful churches saved the better honestly. Quite a few have been demolished in Philadelphia to be replaced by new luxury housing/townhomes. It would be nice to see more saved and converted to loft space or office space.

There is a beautiful church at 22nd and Chestnut in Center City that was converted to office space a few years back. Apparently the employees absolutely love the working environment. I wish more developers would get more creative like this to save these churches:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9525...8i6656!6m1!1e1

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by RightonWalnut

The more beautiful churches saved the better honestly. Quite a few have been demolished in Philadelphia to be replaced by new luxury housing/townhomes. It would be nice to see more saved and converted to loft space or office space.

There is a beautiful church at 22nd and Chestnut in Center City that was converted to office space a few years back. Apparently the employees absolutely love the working environment. I wish more developers would get more creative like this to save these churches:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9525...8i6656!6m1!1e1

I have seen a few clumsy adaptations of church buildings, but most of them have been quite sensitive and well executed.

The problem is that often, the buildings have deteriorated to the point where they're beyond salvaging. That happened with one old church I know about in West Poplar. Then there are those churches whose congregations want to sell the building to the highest bidder, preservation be damned; if they're not listed on the city historic register, there's not much that can be done to stop them. There's a historic African-American church in Graduate Hospital whose leaders were determined to sell to someone who wanted to tear it down, to the consternation of some of the members of the congregation. I don't recall right off the ultimate outcome of that fight.

There was an Episcopal church in East Kensington that was purchased by a developer who hoped to convert both the sanctuary and its parish house to residences. But the sanctuary turned out to be too far gone to convert at a reasonable cost, so down it came, and new townhouses are rising on its site. But the parish house was still very much sound. Take a look at what the developer is doing with it:

Hard Hat Tour: The Parish House | Philadelphia Magazine