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Old 12-28-2016, 05:27 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,755 posts, read 17,992,748 times
Reputation: 14731

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Pennsylvania is one of nine states not in compliance with the new driver's license rules passed by Congress in 2005: TSA rule: You won’t be able to board an airplane with driver. From that link: "Flyers with driver’s licenses from*Kentucky, Maine, Minnesota, Missouri,*Montana, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and Washington will need an alternative form of ID, like a passport or military ID." This will start in January of 2018.

If you go to the TSA homepage it gets more complicated: https://www.dhs.gov/real-id-enforcement-brief#. Actually; here is even a better link to News Watch 16's article: PA Driver’s License Not Valid ID For Future Air Travel | WNEP.com. In that article they state: "Starting on January 30, 2017 all federal buildings, military bases, and nuclear power plants may no longer allow a Pennsylvania driver's license as a federally acceptable form of identification." So, if you visit one of these facilities or work there, you might want to plan ahead.

According to the News Watch 16 article they had contacted one of our officials: "At this point, Pennsylvania law bars PennDOT from complying," said Rich Kirkpatrick, Communications Director for the PA Department of Transportation. "If the law is repealed, it would take us 18* to 24 months to make all of the system changes needed to bring the state into full compliance. It is likely Homeland Security would grant another extension if the law is repealed, but that is their decision. PennDOT has made many upgrades to the driver license security over time." I have to ask myself why are we not in compliance?
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
32,779 posts, read 36,022,033 times
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This is the first I've heard about it.

"PennDOT officials point out that the Pennsylvania legislature has blocked any changes to driver's licenses that would make them compliant with the new federal rules. Lawmakers argue it's a costly federal mandate that states should not have to pay."

Now go out and pay for a passport.
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Old 12-28-2016, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,755 posts, read 17,992,748 times
Reputation: 14731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerania View Post
This is the first I've heard about it.

"PennDOT officials point out that the Pennsylvania legislature has blocked any changes to driver's licenses that would make them compliant with the new federal rules. Lawmakers argue it's a costly federal mandate that states should not have to pay."

Now go out and pay for a passport.
I think that it boils down to this: "The following controversial elements of the DLA are already in the existing compacts: a convicting state must report out-of-state convictions to the licensing state, states must grant license reciprocity to drivers licensed in other states, and states must allow authorities in other states access to driving records, consistent with the Driver Privacy Protection Act." Which I copied from this Wikipedia link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act.

I think that there are many in government or in the special interest groups that influence government; that do not want other states or our State to know their past driving history. For us, that have our CDLs, that information is already shared. But, to many, if you get a ticket in one state; there is no need to report that ticket in our State and no reason your insurance company should know. I also presume, if we accepted this change; that some would have a hefty bill to pay and maybe loss of their driving privilege?

PS If this does not change PA residents will need to get a passport to fly and that supposedly cost $114 today.
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Old 01-03-2017, 06:00 AM
 
345 posts, read 274,749 times
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Here's a news release from the state ACLU chapter. Looks like at the time people were more concerned about identity theft. I have a feeling there was also a concern about the state maintaining sovereignty instead of bending to federal rule---something a lot of people are all for until it affects them in ways like this.

https://www.aclupa.org/news/2012/05/...ays-aclu-of-pa

This news story talks a little bit more about how drivers wouldn't be able to renew their registration online or other services:

http://www.pennlive.com/articles/198...vania_driv.amp

And an editorial from the York Dispatch about why the legislature should repeal Act 38 of 2012:

Editorial: Let's get Real ID

(Keep in mind it's an editorial so it reflects an opinion, not necessarily objective news.)


For what it's worth, this was a bipartisan bill that passed almost unanimously under Corbett, so it can't really be blaming on political interest. I think the state legislature thought they were making a stand against a federal mandate, and it came back to bite them in the butt.
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,755 posts, read 17,992,748 times
Reputation: 14731
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayMoe10 View Post
Here's a news release from the state ACLU chapter. Looks like at the time people were more concerned about identity theft. I have a feeling there was also a concern about the state maintaining sovereignty instead of bending to federal rule---something a lot of people are all for until it affects them in ways like this.

https://www.aclupa.org/news/2012/05/...ays-aclu-of-pa

This news story talks a little bit more about how drivers wouldn't be able to renew their registration online or other services:

http://www.pennlive.com/articles/198...vania_driv.amp

And an editorial from the York Dispatch about why the legislature should repeal Act 38 of 2012:

Editorial: Let's get Real ID

(Keep in mind it's an editorial so it reflects an opinion, not necessarily objective news.)


For what it's worth, this was a bipartisan bill that passed almost unanimously under Corbett, so it can't really be blaming on political interest. I think the state legislature thought they were making a stand against a federal mandate, and it came back to bite them in the butt.
Thank you for the information. What is also confusing are the two important dates for Pennsylvanians: The first date is coming up pretty quick: January 30th of 2017. That is the date that some Pennsylvanians will not be allowed to enter some federal buildings, nuclear power plants and military bases without additional ID. The second date of January of 2018 is the date that Pennsylvanians will no longer be allowed to fly without the additional ID.

My feeling is that I like the REAL ID and I wish PA will move to embrace this old Federal law. I know that the ACLU cited the cost factor and security problems, but if we went along with this legislation from the beginning; the cost would have been minimal. The security issues we have had in our own State and we need to address those issues Nationally - there are simply too many successful hackings. By the way; I have a CDL and my information has been shared for years; you don't have any choice if you want to drive truck.
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Old 01-04-2017, 11:57 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
32,779 posts, read 36,022,033 times
Reputation: 43493
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
I think that it boils down to this: "The following controversial elements of the DLA are already in the existing compacts: a convicting state must report out-of-state convictions to the licensing state, states must grant license reciprocity to drivers licensed in other states, and states must allow authorities in other states access to driving records, consistent with the Driver Privacy Protection Act." Which I copied from this Wikipedia link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act.

I think that there are many in government or in the special interest groups that influence government; that do not want other states or our State to know their past driving history. For us, that have our CDLs, that information is already shared. But, to many, if you get a ticket in one state; there is no need to report that ticket in our State and no reason your insurance company should know. I also presume, if we accepted this change; that some would have a hefty bill to pay and maybe loss of their driving privilege?

PS If this does not change PA residents will need to get a passport to fly and that supposedly cost $114 today.
Though I have a military ID, no one is going to let me enter a nuclear power plant. A few times when I was asked for a second form of ID and offered that, I was told that it wasn't acceptable. I had a few things to say to the clueless person. His or her supervisor found it acceptable. I had to fill out paperwork, present documents, and be photographed and fingerprinted to get that ID. If it's good enough for the military, it should be good enough for you.
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Old 01-05-2017, 01:40 AM
 
345 posts, read 274,749 times
Reputation: 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
Thank you for the information. What is also confusing are the two important dates for Pennsylvanians: The first date is coming up pretty quick: January 30th of 2017. That is the date that some Pennsylvanians will not be allowed to enter some federal buildings, nuclear power plants and military bases without additional ID. The second date of January of 2018 is the date that Pennsylvanians will no longer be allowed to fly without the additional ID.

My feeling is that I like the REAL ID and I wish PA will move to embrace this old Federal law. I know that the ACLU cited the cost factor and security problems, but if we went along with this legislation from the beginning; the cost would have been minimal. The security issues we have had in our own State and we need to address those issues Nationally - there are simply too many successful hackings. By the way; I have a CDL and my information has been shared for years; you don't have any choice if you want to drive truck.
I agree.

Like I said, I think PA and the other states not in compliance saw it as Big Government trying to take over states' rights.


I wonder if Penndot or the PA legislature could sue for a 10th amendment violation?
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Old 01-05-2017, 03:49 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,755 posts, read 17,992,748 times
Reputation: 14731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerania View Post
Though I have a military ID, no one is going to let me enter a nuclear power plant. A few times when I was asked for a second form of ID and offered that, I was told that it wasn't acceptable. I had a few things to say to the clueless person. His or her supervisor found it acceptable. I had to fill out paperwork, present documents, and be photographed and fingerprinted to get that ID. If it's good enough for the military, it should be good enough for you.
I would think so (that it should be good enough)! I use to have a CCW and also the Hazmat certification on my CDL; I left both expire. Both of those, because you go though extensive background checks; should be enough to qualify for additional ID. I would still just like to see our State in compliance.

By the way; I wish that our military would issue picture ID for any veteran. It would be a great courtesy for those that have served our Country and it could have financial rewards (with companies that give veteran discounts). I just have to keep a copy of my DD 214.

Last edited by toobusytoday; 01-18-2017 at 09:31 AM.. Reason: fixed typo
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Old 01-05-2017, 03:57 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,755 posts, read 17,992,748 times
Reputation: 14731
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayMoe10 View Post
I agree.

Like I said, I think PA and the other states not in compliance saw it as Big Government trying to take over states' rights.


I wonder if Penndot or the PA legislature could sue for a 10th amendment violation?
I can understand our willingness to retain our State's sovereignty. However; these are dangerous times. To track terrorist across state lines we still need the 'tools' to do the job. States have to make some concessions if we want to survive when the 'war' could come to our doorsteps.
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:34 AM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,816,457 times
Reputation: 17863
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
but if we went along with this legislation from the beginning; the cost would have been minimal.
PA had already gone to great expense to implement the current ID before this legislation came about.
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