Coal in streams? (house, disposal, living)

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by 2nd trick op

It might also be noted that enough coal found its way into the streams that it could be dredged from the river bottom and resold; exactly how it found its way into the streams isn't clear, but I'd suspect mine drainage in this case, since it's not likely that much coal traffic ever moved on the Susquehanna itself -- only in barges drawn by horse- and mule-power on a parallel slack-water canal.

Coal is far less dense than rock, 5 gallons of water is about 42 pounds. 5 gallons of coal is about 35 to 40 pounds but there is going to be air pockets. With enough pressure it could certainly be moved by water. There was a discussion on my forum about "beach coal". In areas where there wasa lot coal activity you can walk down the beach and find coal after a good storm.

Because it's weight by volume is so close to water that is what they do to separate coal from rock in what they call a Menzies cone. They spin the water in the cone which is mixed with magnetite, this allows the coal to float and the rock sinks. This is a picture of one of 8 such cones that were in the Huber. Note the guy standing next to it for persepective.





That doesn't mean it's the source and keep in mind finer coal than smaller than say a dime had no value in the past. They used it for all kinds of things like railroad beds for example.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by fisheye

I was curious if they did anything in the last four years or if the problem is still there?

I know there has been discussion for years but do not know if they did anything yet. It will be addressed at some point.

What I found interesting about that Times-Tribune article was this paragraph: "The 42-inch borehole drains what some call an underground lake, one that Lackawanna River Corridor Association executive director Bernie McGurl said holds nearly as much water as Lake Wallenpaupack." It is amazing how much coal was extracted under that area.

What is really amazing is they have barely touched what was there. This is a photo from the Lehigh Anthracite's Mammoth vein operations near Lansford. You are looking at about 800 feet of rock face, those rocks at the bottom might be the size of a bus. The coal seam sits on that rock feet about 10 to 20 feet thick.

See the line horizontal, if you look closely you'll see another line perhaps a few hundred feet above that and even another line above that. That line is divots in the rock from the old underground mine where the ties sat. they mined that out and would mine vertically up the face every 50 or whatever it was. They wouldof course have to be careful they didn't mine out to much below the tunnel above. They just scratched the coal that was there.




This is an active mine and if you look in the background you'll the start of the reclamation process. They ill it in, contour it with top soil, seed and plant a few trees. Mother nature does the rest and in one hundred years it's going to be very difficult to tell they were there unless you know what you are looking for.

If you follow that line across that rock face it goes to here. This tunnel would have provided access to other veins of coal further into the mountainside. It's not just one vein but multiple veins.





They have mine tour in Lansford called the Number 9, if you are ever in that area I would highly recommend it. If you have been on the Lackwanna tour it puts it to shame.

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

They have mine tour in Lansford called the Number 9, if you are ever in that area I would highly recommend it. If you have been on the Lackwanna tour it puts it to shame.

We did the Lackwanna tour. I did the Google 'Earth' (aerial) tour of the Landsford mine and saw that it was not too far off Route 209 on the western side of the town. Maybe one of these days we will get down there?

[2nd trick op]

Few people today are aware of the long and sometimes controversial history of the Lehigh Coal and Navigation Company:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehigh...gation_Company

Most of the coal- and steel related enterprises of the Nineteenth Century revolved around transportation -- either by slack water canals (narrow channels paralleling a stream) or railroads) and what came to be called "The Old Company" was no exception. The use of "stone (anthracite) coal" didn't become practical until several innovators perfected the technique of burning it on a grate, with a forced draft.

But once that issue was resolved, a huge market quickly emerged, and with it, a network for the sale and distribution of anthracite, in this case, mined a few miles upstream from the town of Mauch Chunk, renamed Jim Thorpe in the 1950's.

The demand for raw, but not-very-skilled labor in a dangerous occupation fueled the class tensions of the times, most prominently remembered in the form of the Molly Maguires -- an informal labor union which occasionally resorted to outright terrorism. These events have been recorded, from various points of view, in works ranging from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's The Valley of Fear to a 1968 feature film, much of it filmed on location in Carbon County.

"The Old Company" was to expand and endure until the late Sixties; its entrepreneurship expanded to include a rail line, the Lehigh and New England, and participation in the growing cement trade, development of a zinc smelter a few miles downstream at Palmerton. But eventually, almost all of the enterprises involved either became obsolete or, in the case of cement, found new means of distribution. So the company was liquidated, the rail line and smelter abandoned, and a final "liquidating dividend" paid to shareholders (amidst the usual criticism that it could have continued to operate at a loss to provide paychecks and tax revenue).

Today, few reminders of its presence remain, save for an occasional faded "fried egg") one of the earliest examples of a corporate logo) on a faded billboard or roadside structure, and it's restored headquarters. which served as an annex to the Carbon County Courthouse before its restoration, conversion to upscale apartments, and registration as a historic landmark.

[fisheye]

On the subject of coal mining: Trump signs bill undoing Obama coal mining rule | TheHill. I am curious if this will impact our area?

[blazerj]

Originally Posted by fisheye

On the subject of coal mining: Trump signs bill undoing Obama coal mining rule | TheHill. I am curious if this will impact our area?

I guess it depends on how strict PA State Law is and how/ if it's actually enforced. Given the historical importance of coal in PA, my guess is that the state laws favor the coal producers and "jobs" over the environment.

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by blazerj

I guess it depends on how strict PA State Law is and how/ if it's actually enforced. Given the historical importance of coal in PA, my guess is that the state laws favor the coal producers and "jobs" over the environment.

As far as I know anthracite coal was always more environmentally friendly than the soft coal of the mid-western states. Of course it still has to be mined which poses the problems with the runoff in the streams. But, as long as they are making money; there should be pressure to contain the hazards to the environment.

With the environmental laws on the books I don't think all regulations will go away quickly. Even with the push to eliminate the regulations some will always stay in place - it has to.

[jtab4994]

Originally Posted by fisheye

On the subject of coal mining: Trump signs bill undoing Obama coal mining rule | TheHill. I am curious if this will impact our area?

Lost in the noise and hoopla is the fact that Obama issued this rule in December 2016, his last full month in office.


So the rule had only been in place for 2 months. How much "impact" can there possibly be?


Nice bipartisan photo-op for Trump, though, with conservative Democrat Joe Manchin on hand for the signing although both of our PA Senators seemed to be missing.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by fisheye

On the subject of coal mining: Trump signs bill undoing Obama coal mining rule | TheHill. I am curious if this will impact our area?

Again this was one of those last minute regulations and it would have prevented new mining in huge areas. It's on top of regulations already set by the feds and the state.

There is not a lot of active mining in the eastern part of the state, PA's total output might be something like 50 million tons and about 3 of that is from anthracite mines in the eastern part of the state.

[toobusytoday]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

Again this was one of those last minute regulations and it would have prevented new mining in huge areas. It's on top of regulations already set by the feds and the state.

There is not a lot of active mining in the eastern part of the state, PA's total output might be something like 50 million tons and about 3 of that is from anthracite mines in the eastern part of the state.

Just going off topic for a minute though, doesn't this affect mountain top mining in states like West Virginia and Kentucky? Places where they pretty much rip off the top of the mountain and anyone living below deals with the fallout. Ecological Impacts of Mountaintop Removal « Appalachian Voices Is that what this bill was aiming to prevent?