Lou Barrlestta seeks to run agains Senator Casey (Philadelphia, Allentown: new home, wages)

[ki0eh]

If we legalized all the migrants, they might join unions, or report crimes. Those tendencies would make the folks who own and run the country uncomfortable.

"Illegal immigration" is a symptom, not a cause of problems. Basically, a small group took all the wealth and opportunity, once they found it cheaper to buy politicians and propaganda outlets than to pay the taxes supporting the social programs their forebears found was the price to steer society between bolshevism and fascism.

3 out of 4 of my grandparents passed through Ellis Island. Their passage was recorded, and they became US citizens, under laws prevailing at the time. We came out of the furnace, as today's migrants would, given the chance.

Instead, we are being led back into feudalism and ignorance, led by increasing channelization to ignore the powerful tools of global community that could instead make people as internationalized as capital.

We could maintain the civilization we have, except that takes taxes. We could expand our knowledge of biology, oceans, and space, but those require socially directed capital investments. Here, have this new iPhone, to tell you who to blame for the increasingly obvious consequences of our cannibalized, corporatized economy, and track your thoughts to corporations, certainly not a responsible government.

[jtab4994]

Originally Posted by ki0eh

If we legalized all the migrants, they might join unions, or report crimes. Those tendencies would make the folks who own and run the country uncomfortable.

Are you suggesting that unions currently bar illegals from joining? Wouldn't that mean the unions are hateful and bigoted?


And as far as reporting crimes, I think you've bought the pro-illegal propaganda. Most illegals who live in so-called sanctuary cities know they can't be arrested just for being illegal, so they're free to report crimes. Didn't you hear about the illegal in San Francisco who won a $190,000 judgment against the city because the local SF cops turned him over to ICE when he reported his car stolen? That kind of judgment is meant to send a message to local cops: Don't turn illegals over to ICE.


Why not change the immigration laws if they're so bad? Trump is urging Congress to do just that with regard to DACA, and I think it's about time. Paul Ryan can grandstand and call DACA unconstitutional when Obama is President, then he turns around and says he loves DACA when Trump wants to put the ball in Congress's court. Change the laws, if they're so hateful and bigoted!

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by bradjl2009

So then why doesn't the GOP ever mention going after the employers if they care so much about protecting low skilled Americans?

You can't argue that when they are trying to eliminate the root cause which is the presence of the illegal immigrants to begin with. I would certainly support mandatory e-verify but that doesn't solve the issue either because of identity theft. The only way you are going to solve this issue is to attack it across the board. There is many incentives to illegally enter this country that are way out of the employers control such as the anchor babies.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by blazerj

Mostly deportations have remained lower than in past years under the Obama administration. From January to June, Immigration and Customs Enforcement deported 61,370 criminals, down from 70,603 during the same period last year."

Whenever something doesn't make sense especially where numbers are concerned it's usually wise to research why that might be. If you recall they were making the claim that Obama was deporting more people than Bush, the reason for that is they changed what was included in that number. Under the Bush administration people that were caught near the border that voluntarily returned and were immediately deported were not counted as deportations, under the Obama administration they were.

The flow of illegal immigrants into this country is far down.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/08/u...r.html?mcubz=0

It stands to reason those immediate deportations will also be down. It also stands to reason the deportations of others is up.

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

You can't argue that when they are trying to eliminate the root cause which is the presence of the illegal immigrants to begin with. I would certainly support mandatory e-verify but that doesn't solve the issue either because of identity theft. The only way you are going to solve this issue is to attack it across the board. There is many incentives to illegally enter this country that are way out of the employers control such as the anchor babies.

Do you understand how incentives work? Most came here for work and money. Get rid of the work and they can't sustain themselves so they wouldn't be here. Blame the Constitution if you can't stand "anchor babies" as well.

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by jtab4994

Are you suggesting that unions currently bar illegals from joining? Wouldn't that mean the unions are hateful and bigoted?


And as far as reporting crimes, I think you've bought the pro-illegal propaganda. Most illegals who live in so-called sanctuary cities know they can't be arrested just for being illegal, so they're free to report crimes. Didn't you hear about the illegal in San Francisco who won a $190,000 judgment against the city because the local SF cops turned him over to ICE when he reported his car stolen? That kind of judgment is meant to send a message to local cops: Don't turn illegals over to ICE.


Why not change the immigration laws if they're so bad? Trump is urging Congress to do just that with regard to DACA, and I think it's about time. Paul Ryan can grandstand and call DACA unconstitutional when Obama is President, then he turns around and says he loves DACA when Trump wants to put the ball in Congress's court. Change the laws, if they're so hateful and bigoted!

On the note of unions baring illegals from joining; I received this today from my Teamsters Union:

Dear XXXXXX,

Eber Garcia Vasquez has been a member of Teamsters Local 813 for 26 years. He is a loving father to his wife and four children. Eber is a Teamster through and through. But instead of celebrating Labor Day with his family, Eber is in an immigration detention cell and could be deported to Guatemala, where he fears for his life.

Please help our union brother Eber by calling on ICE Field Director Thomas Decker to release him. Sign the petition.

Eber came to U.S. in the 1980s, fleeing violence in his homeland. Several of his family members in Guatemala, including his mother, have been killed.


In his time in the U.S., he has played by the rules: following the asylum application process, working legally, and checking in with ICE every year. His wife and several children are U.S. citizens and that gives Eber a path to a Green Card, but ICE is trying to deport him before he can complete that process.


You can help. Please sign the petition to ICE today.

Eber’s family depends on his union job. His wife was in a car crash earlier this year and is now in a wheelchair. If Eber is deported, it is going to wreak havoc on their lives.


The Teamsters stand with immigrant families and immigrant workers. Thank you for supporting our union and our campaign to free our Teamster brother Eber.


In Solidarity,





George Miranda

President, Teamsters Joint Council 16

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by bradjl2009

Do you understand how incentives work? Most came here for work and money. Get rid of the work and they can't sustain themselves so they wouldn't be here. Blame the Constitution if you can't stand "anchor babies" as well.

I'm not disagreeing with you or agreeing with you, what we do to stop illegal immigrants from coming to this country needs to be broad in scope. I've always advocated stronger penalties for employers that employ them including criminal liability. The government needs to determine specific guidelines and the tools for employers like e-verify. My suggestion in the past is that the employer, either the owner of the business or someone designated as their agent, would be criminally responsible if they were not following those guidelines and found to be employing illegal immigrants. To avoid red tape you could allow employers to self certify, e.g. I don't really need to check the immigration status of my nephew.

This isn't something I have not considered in the past..... Getting back to the topic at hand Barletta has long track record of fighting illegal immigration. What has Casey done?

[ki0eh]

Originally Posted by jtab4994

Are you suggesting that unions currently bar illegals from joining? Wouldn't that mean the unions are hateful and bigoted?

More the inverse. Those who most fear employer reprisal, i.e. subject to being told "if you sign that union card I'm calling ICE," are least likely to join unions, complain about wage theft, etc.

Legitimacy of the law flows from approximating justice with the law. Slavery, the Holocaust, etc. were legal. One should change the law to bend toward justice, if needed.

I used to like listening to the G. Gordon Liddy radio show. One of his favorite distinctions was between "malum in se" or evil in and of itself, vs. "malum prohibitum" or evil only because prohibited. Even if one's politics don't align with Liddy's, considering that difference is a useful analytical tool.

[jtab4994]

Originally Posted by ki0eh

More the inverse. Those who most fear employer reprisal, i.e. subject to being told "if you sign that union card I'm calling ICE," are least likely to join unions, complain about wage theft, etc.

That sounds like you made it up. If the union offers no help then they're no good anyway. And the truly menial jobs that a person with no language skills or education is forced to accept, are by definition the most likely to suck.

Legitimacy of the law flows from approximating justice with the law. Slavery, the Holocaust, etc. were legal. One should change the law to bend toward justice, if needed.

Exactly what Trump is trying to get Congress to do. The federal government was facing a barrage of lawsuits from states over DACA, and it would probably have been judged unconstitutional. Then what? Better to get ahead of the curve and give Congress 6 months to come up with a plan that the President will sign.

[blazerj]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

Whenever something doesn't make sense especially where numbers are concerned it's usually wise to research why that might be. If you recall they were making the claim that Obama was deporting more people than Bush, the reason for that is they changed what was included in that number. Under the Bush administration people that were caught near the border that voluntarily returned and were immediately deported were not counted as deportations, under the Obama administration they were.

The flow of illegal immigrants into this country is far down.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/08/u...r.html?mcubz=0

It stands to reason those immediate deportations will also be down. It also stands to reason the deportations of others is up.

Fair enough, and your link about less illegal border crossings because of the bluster of Trump makes sense. But, the link doesn't mention anything about the differences in definitions.

Irrespective, the fact that Obama deported a bunch of illegals is lost on people. Does it matter if Trump deported 10% more or less than Obama? The OP was arguing that Trump was "hired" to deport people, but he's wrong (shockingly).