A Thread For Those Who Have Left (Or Plan To Leave) Pennsylvania (Pittsburgh: rent, house)

[FLhereIcome]

[quote=ScranBarre;3367261]I was inspired by a similar thread on the Ohio forum, and I figured this might likewise be a good idea for the Pennsylvania forum.

1.) Where do you currently live in PA or where did you formerly live in PA?
Living in Upper Bucks County

2.) Where do you live now after leaving PA or where do you plan to move once you do leave PA?
Moving to the East Coast of Florida

3.) What are your "back-up" choices for relocation destinations?
Raleigh, NC (our vacation/retirement location)

4.) Why do you wish to leave PA or why did you leave PA?
I only need to work 7 more years as a State employee to qualify for my
retirement package. Also, I hate to admit that I may have been born
and raised as a "yankee", but I always felt that I should have been
born and raised in the South (I love grits!!!!).

5.) What's currently holding you back from moving out if you haven't already left? Will be gone by mid-June.


6.) What would it take to entice you to move back to PA if you have already left or to stay if you haven't yet left? Our families are here so we will visit, but will not move back again.

[NWPAguy]

Seems like most people who are posting to this thread live in places other than where I currently live. I'll provide the perspective from northwest PA.

1.) Where do you currently live in PA or where did you formerly live in PA?

I live near Corry, which is about 30 miles from Erie. I moved here because I got married to a native who had lived here her whole life save for her college years.

2.) Where do you live now after leaving PA or where do you plan to move once you do leave PA?

We're looking at Texas.

3.) What are your "back-up" choices for relocation destinations?

Any place where the wintertime is rarely frigid and it rarely snows... and where summers aren't oppressively humid. Also, a place where true economic opportunity actually exists. Everyone in this area pretty much agrees that good jobs, and economic opportunity, are extremely hard to find.

4.) Why do you wish to leave PA or why did you leave PA?

PA is full of people who complain about things and yet have no desire to change them... or move away to an area which matches what they really want. There are things I like about where I live... for example, it's very "redneck", which matches my personality... but it's possible to be a redneck and not be trash. Out here, too many people are trash... living on welfare because they either don't feel like working or because they've borne illegitimate children... it could be said that there aren't many jobs around here, and therefore too many people who want to work can't find work... but if they were responsible, they'd move to where the jobs actually exist rather than staying here an whining for others to take care of them. That's called being responsible. It seems that shockingly few people in this area actually feel like being responsible for themselves is an absolute necessity, as they believe that the government will bail them out if they get into a rut. The tax structure and legal climate of this state are decidedly liberal and oppressive to businesses... which means that once the jobs move out, they're not likely to move back in. New businesses are not as likely to locate in this area due to the lack of highly educated, upwardly mobile people (who usually move far away after graduating college, in search of opportunity)... especially when those businesses could locate in a low-tax red state such as Texas which is growing in leaps and bounds. Our governor said that he endorses Hillary Clinton. She is a glorified socialist, and anyone with half a brain knows that. She wants to tax the rich and dole their money out to people who don't deserve it as much... let's face it, I'd love to be rich and I'm sure someday I will be... but even from this side of the fence I know that rich people are the ones who own the companies that provide jobs. Tax the rich more heavily, and the rich will either have less money available to pay salaries (which will put more working people out of a job) or they will have that last bit of impetus they need move to low-tax red states where they will be able to keep as much of their riches as possible. Most rich people have earned their riches legitimately... or inherited those riches from people who did. And yet, the rich are constantly vilified by those who want an unearned piece of their action. This state does have a strong conservative base, but it's not stronger than the liberal base and the liberals are gaining on us every day. (I just read that new voter registrations for the Democratic party in Pennsylvania are outnumbering new voter registrations for the Republican party by a factor of 10 to 1. I also heard that defections from the Republican party to the Democratic party are outnumbering defections from the Democratic party to the Republican party by a factor of 3 to 1.) I choose to vote with my feet and move to a state where people still have their heads screwed on straight and don't want to turn the state and the country into a Marxist empire.

5.) What's currently holding you back from moving out if you haven't already left?

Not having secured a dependable source of income elsewhere yet. This is a relatively new idea for my wife and I.

6.) What would it take to entice you to move back to PA if you have already left or to stay if you haven't yet left?

Toss all of the liberal politicians and get some true cowboys into office... who will burn the state's tax/welfare code and rewrite it from the ground up. If PA goes from one of America's most highly-taxed states to America's lowest-taxed state, companies would flood into the state, jobs would boom, and lots of the college students who are educated in PA would stay in PA. PA has a lot of natural beauty, and it is a sportsman's paradise. I don't like winter but a lot of people do... and PA doesn't often get devastating weather disasters. People are moving away from PA and the Northeast for economic reasons, and not much else. Don't take my word for it... read the information for yourself. The Census Bureau just put out information on growth and shrinkage of counties in America during 2006-2007... this area was the fastest-shrinking, and the observed trend continued what has apparently been a long-standing trend... people moving away from the Northeast into the south and the Midwest. Southern states and Midwestern states are the fastest-growing. I give you the following information, partly taken from Fast-growing states: Arizona overtakes Nevada - Dec. 22, 2006

The following list ranks the fastest-growing states as of the date of this article, along with a rank I have devised for how "red" the state is. (This is defined by how the state voted during the last six presidential elections. It is followed by how many times the state was "blue" and went to the Democratic candidate in the last six presidential elections.)

1. Arizona (15th, once)
2. Nevada (21st, twice)
3. Idaho (2nd, never)
4. Georgia (19th, once)
5. Texas (13th, never)
6. Utah (1st, never)
7. North Carolina (17th, never)
8. Colorado (24th, once)
9. Florida (20th, once)
10. South Carolina (8th, never)
11. Oregon (*37th, *five times)

I added Oregon in there, rather than showing only the top ten, to show how the topmost "blue state" in terms of growth is only #11 on the list. I've lived in Oregon, and I know how beautiful it is and how moderate the weather can be. The income tax is very high but there is no sales tax... pick your poison, I guess. In contrast to this list, I provide the following list of the SLOWEST-growing states (gathered from the same source). I am eliminating Louisiana from consideration, as its significant population decline was due to Hurricane Katrina. Next to each state's name is how BLUE the state is (on the same scale I devised) and how many times the state voted Republican in the last six presidential elections. Bear in mind, in 1984, EVERY state except for Minnesota went "red", for Ronald Reagan... and for much the same reason, most states went red in 1988 for George H. W. Bush. Therefore, I'm also including a figure on how many times the states went red in just the last FOUR presidential elections.

1. Rhode Island (tied for 1st- red only in 1984, never since) *POPULATION LOSS*
2. Michigan (19th- red only in 1984 and 1988, never since) *POPULATION LOSS*
3. New York (3rd- red only in 1984, never since) *POPULATION LOSS*
4. Ohio (24th- red in 1984 and 1988, and twice since)
5. Massachusetts (tied for 1st- red only in 1984, never since)
6. Mississippi- affected by Hurricane Katrina (41st- always red)
7. Connecticut (11th- red only in 1984 and 1988, never since)
8. North Dakota (44th- always red)
9. Vermont (7th- red only in 1984 and 1988, never since)
10. West Virginia (17th- red in 1984, and twice since 1988)
11. Maine (16th- red only in 1984 and 1988, never since)
12. New Jersey (20th- red only in 1984 and 1988, never since)
13. Pennsylvania (12th- red only in 1984 and 1988, never since)

I went out to 13 states to show where Pennsylvania ranked. The only two "red states" in the lowest 13 are Mississippi, which was hammered by Hurricane Katrina, and North Dakota. I went to North Dakota on my honeymoon and it's a very beautiful, very friendly, laid-back state. However, the locals talk about their "legendary" winters. (The couple who owned the cabin in which we stayed talked nonchalantly about how it's known to get down to 40 degrees below zero sometimes. I can't fathom that kind of cold!) North Dakota has some of the most brutally cold winters in America... my guess is that the weather keeps people away.

So there you have it. Again, don't take it from me... I'm a scientist and musician, not a sociologist nor an economist. I compiled this information from various sources, online and in print. People are moving away from high-tax blue states, and few are moving in. Contrarily, people are moving TOWARD low-tax red states, and few are moving out. (There's very little incentive for someone who has been living in a state with a low cost of living and low taxes to move to a state with a high cost of living and high taxes.) It's about time that everyone got on the bus and stopped electing politicians who are destroying these states and this country for the sake of some bleeding-heart whiners who don't have the strength to take a stand for what's right.

7.) Anything else you'd like to add?

I moved to PA from NJ. That was an improvement. I moved to get away from the hustle and bustle and general rudeness which pervades New Jersey, and along those lines, I was successful. Now I'm going to move south, to where the economic growth is and the high taxes aren't... and pray that there is someone who hasn't realized that this area is in a not-so-slow death cycle, so that my house will sell. I'm a very intelligent, college-educated professional. My move is going to add just a tad more fuel to the fire of those who complain about the "brain drain" from this area. Think about this for a minute... if smart people are generally moving away from an area, leaving mostly the under-educated slackers remaining, what does that tell you about the area?

[CHIP72]

People are moving to the "red states" not because of high taxes, but because of cheap land and central air conditioning.

[FightinPhils]

Originally Posted by NWPAguy

I moved to PA from NJ. That was an improvement. I moved to get away from the hustle and bustle and general rudeness which pervades New Jersey, and along those lines, I was successful. Now I'm going to move south, to where the economic growth is and the high taxes aren't... and pray that there is someone who hasn't realized that this area is in a not-so-slow death cycle, so that my house will sell. I'm a very intelligent, college-educated professional. My move is going to add just a tad more fuel to the fire of those who complain about the "brain drain" from this area. Think about this for a minute... if smart people are generally moving away from an area, leaving mostly the under-educated slackers remaining, what does that tell you about the area?

Be prepared, even though it may seem there are more job opportunities in the south, the wages are not that great. If I was to move to Raleigh, NC, for my exact same job I have in NE PA, I would have to take a pay cut of near $10,000, and also have to pay at least 3 times as much for housing.

The grass is not always greener on the other side...

[NWPAguy]

CHIP72, I hear you on that "cheap land" and "central air conditioning" thing... but I can assure you that those two reasons aren't the main reasons why people are moving away from states such as Pennsylvania. To illustrate...

Yesterday, I spoke with the realtor who is selling my investment house. I told him about the house in which my wife and I presently reside. It's a classic second-empire Victorian on 0.4 acres, with a two-car attached garage and an enclosed front porch. The house is around 3,400 square feet and although we had to replace some things in the bathroom before we could move in, that's all that stood in our way. It needed a roof and could use a bit more work as well, but it's livable as is with no threat to our health or safety. I asked him how much he figured such a house would go for... his guess was $120-130K. Not quite. I got this house for $30K... and that wasn't a tremendous steal, as it appraised for $34K. I can't say that I know much about the real estate market in other areas of the country, but since I can't see how it's all that likely that a house like mine could ever be had anywhere else for LESS than what I paid for mine (barring extreme circumstances), I have to believe that the economically depressed areas of Pennsylvania are, or are among, the very cheapest in the nation for land and housing. $60,000 will buy you a family-sized house in perfect move-in condition, needing no work, around here. So, you mentioned cheap land... it's all relative. If my house were in the area of New Jersey where I grew up, it would've sold for at least $300,000 if it was sold as a house into which people would expect to move. The more likely scenario is that it would've been advertised as a knock-down... the trend in NJ is huge houses on small lots... a builder probably would've paid a half million for my house, knocked it down, erected a McMansion which cost his company $200,000... and turned around to sell the whole kit 'n' kaboodle for $900,000. It makes me sick, but stranger things have happened.

As for central air conditioning... when it comes to weather, we all pick our poison. We'll be uncomfortable whether we're too cold or too hot... so if you live in the north, you'd better have a good furnace... and if you live in the south, you'd better have a good air conditioning system. Some people like it hot... some like it cold. I, for one, am sick of winter and ready to move to where it never snows... however, my mom (a lifelong Jersey girl) despises summer so much that she told me if she were to move, she'd rather have a more severe winter if it meant a less severe summer. I say people don't move south so they can get central air conditioning... they move south so that they'll be where it's warmer more often... which basically suggests a need for central air (which is a wonderful thing, by the way).

MrKrabs, your screen name is awesome... but aside from that, you said that you'd have to take a pay cut if you moved to NC and a house would be much more expensive. I can see how that'd be possible, but it all depends upon your line of work. For example, teachers are highly paid in the Northeast, because the Northeast has really high taxes. Southern states with lower taxes pay teachers less. Of course, on the whole, those southern states have a lower cost of living, so it all evens out... but I'd be willing to bet that there are cheap areas of North Carolina just as there are expensive areas. The coast is probably really expensive (people pay a lot to get pounded by hurricanes, I guess)... and the mountainous western area is probably cheaper. I wouldn't know... I haven't looked into it. I'm just comparing it to what I know of NJ and PA... two states with an east-west configuration including a coastal east and a more mountainous west. I said above that land and houses are extremely cheap out here where I live... that is really good for some people. Just yesterday I spoke with a teacher who is moving to Virginia upon getting married in July... she says she won't make much more down there than she does up here, and the cost of a house is about 4 times what that house's cost would be up here. For people who are blessed enough to be able to find a well-paying job in a cheap area, as long as they can deal with the weather (up here we get an average of 8 feet of snow by Christmas), it's an ideal scenario.

I've asked people in low-tax southern "red states" what is making people move down there... the overwhelming consensus of opinion is "the economy". I know, from being a Northeasterner all these years, that there are plenty of people who move south to get away from winter... but if you talk with enough people, you'll find that there are some who move north (or into the mountains) to escape summer. I'm certainly not trying to say that people DON'T move so they can get "cheap land and central air conditioning"... but when there is REALLY cheap land in the Northeast, and people will be uncomfortable during hot sticky summers as they would be during frigid snowy winters, there has to be some other reason why people are generally fleeing the Northeast. It's all about the political and economic condition of where they're going compared to where they came from.

[abloodragon]

Mmm I'm moving back up north... to Pa on April 15th.

Born and raised in NJ, will never go back, too long a list including taxes
moved to Florida, first time (mistake number 1) (about 4 years)
moved to Hawaii (3 years), fun but try driving in your car 50 miles, also
expensive
moved to California (1 year) everybody should try that at least one time, you
will never complain about traffic or housing prices ever again.
moved back to florida (mistake number 2, did not learn from mistake number 1)
high crime, high amount of transients (nobody is from florida), humidity is
through the roof, and if you live near the ocean, you will never complain
again about how the road salt rusted the underside of your car (lasted
about 7 years, before I could dig myself out and get enough money to
get the hell out) I haven't even been back there for even a vacation since I left.

moved to North Carolina (11 years) nice enough, wages stink, I still
don't like grits, or biscuits and gravy. They never get my order right
unless I fake a southern accent. Everybody will wave at you, but nobody will talk to you, especially when they find out you aren't a native. I have at least 25 years of working
before I retire, I think I'd like to have a decent enough income that if
social security is still there, I can retire with something.
Hence, I'm going to give PA a whirl, it will be the best wages that I've ever had, also the best benefit package that I've ever had....don't get that in the south. My husbands job here in NC finally went belly up. I want to know who can afford health insurance here in NC? $220 a week at my husbands former employer...that was our share and it's not a typo thats almost $900 a month for family health insurance...my employer's package was better at almost $400 month with astronomical co-pays. Health insurance here is crap, and we aren't sick people!

[aquakttn]

1.) Where do you currently live in PA or where did you formerly live in PA?

I grew up in Upper Bucks County

2.) Where do you live now after leaving PA or where do you plan to move once you do leave PA?

We live in Lower Bucks County.

3.) Where do we plan to move?

That's still up in the air. We know that it will be south or southwest. We are both much happier in sunnier warm climates. The long winters really get to me as I have Seasonal Affective Disorder.

3.) What are your "back-up" choices for relocation destinations?

We're looking into New Mexico, Arizona, North and South Carolina, and Florida.

4.) Why do you wish to leave PA or why did you leave PA?

Purley the weather. I also love to see new things. The Philadelphia area is a great location to get other places, however, its just too cold. I also think the price of houses in Lower Bucks county is a bit on the high side. And the ones we can afford, I just don't really want my kids going to those school districts. Call me an education snob... We originally left PA because of my husbands assignment to Honolulu, HI. We had a great time there! The weather and culture is great. If it weren't so far away from the mainland and I didn't get a case of Island Fever after awhile, I could have seen us staying there forever.

5.) What's currently holding you back from moving out if you haven't already left?

We are both working full time and attending school part time. We came back to get our educations. So the plan is 5 years, get our degrees, save up money for the move, vist the places we're considering, obtain jobs and move to that city/suburb.

6.) What would it take to entice you to move back to PA if you have already left or to stay if you haven't yet left?

Weather change?

7.) Anything else you'd like to add?

Pennsylvania is a really great state. I have no issue with it except for its climate. If you like the winters - then you can find all you need here. You can drive to NYC or Washington DC in a few hours - Boston is only a 5 hour drive away! You can be in an extremely rural farm community or live in a large city in the center of it all.

[Cindy1122]

[quote=ScranBarre;3367261]I was inspired by a similar thread on the Ohio forum, and I figured this might likewise be a good idea for the Pennsylvania forum.

1.) Where do you currently live in PA? Harrisburg, PA


2.) Where do you plan to move once you do leave PA? Salt Lake City


3.) What are your "back-up" choices for relocation destinations? Denver


4.) Why do you wish to leave PA? I'm looking for adventure at high elevations on my snowboard.

5.) What's currently holding you back from moving out if you haven't already left? I believe I am on track to move. We are downsizing and making changes in our career to enable us to be free to move by summer of 2008.


6.) What would it take to entice you to stay if you haven't yet left? Caretaking grandchildren or a parent.


7.) Anything else you'd like to add?

[61scout80]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

I was inspired by a similar thread on the Ohio forum, and I figured this might likewise be a good idea for the Pennsylvania forum.

1.) Where do you currently live in PA or where did you formerly live in PA?

I grew up in Bear Creek, served on the fire department for a few years and graduated from Coughlin in '99 and lincoln tech (allentown) in '01

2.) Where do you live now after leaving PA or where do you plan to move once you do leave PA?

Maricopa, Az. about 20 minutes south of Phoenix

3.) What are your "back-up" choices for relocation destinations?

pacific north west will probably be next. or wherever my fiance gets accepted to med school. maybe even in pa!
I'd love to have the means to live out of an RV and spend a few months all over the nation.

4.) Why do you wish to leave PA or why did you leave PA?

Not enough job opportunity, Not enough recreation activity that isn't drinking or hunting. Too many people that feel anyone in their early 20's is a criminal

5.) What's currently holding you back from moving out if you haven't already left?

gone already. Did have some employment holdups before we left. I moved here 2 years ago with my girlfriend. One of us needed a job before we made the jump. She accepted a position and i moved out here with out. I was prepared to do what ever was needed for income, but luckily i got into town on a Friday and had multiple job offers on the following Monday.

6.) What would it take to entice you to move back to PA if you have already left or to stay if you haven't yet left?

I know someday I will be back to care for my parents. I would love to see the vehicle code be less restrictive and more recreation opportunities...

7.) Anything else you'd like to add?

there are days i get so homesick i need to go to wnep.com and just listen to their opening music. there are other days i couldn't imagine going back. In the end my life and lifestyle have dramatically improved, as well as my understanding of how the world works. I love it here and have absolutely no regrets about leaving....well, except missing good pizza, good wings and yuengling

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[wordzgirl]

1.) Where do you currently live in PA or where did you formerly live in PA?

We lived in Pittsburgh, left in December 2007


2.) Where do you live now after leaving PA or where do you plan to move once you do leave PA?

Outside of Charleston, SC, it's absolutely gorgeous (except for the bugs, but I'm sure I'll get used to them


3.) What are your "back-up" choices for relocation destinations?

We originally thought we'd go to NC, but are so happy to have gone a bit further South


4.) Why do you wish to leave PA or why did you leave PA?

Lack of teaching jobs, crappy weather, high taxes, no family left in the area


5.) What's currently holding you back from moving out if you haven't already left?


6.) What would it take to entice you to move back to PA if you have already left or to stay if you haven't yet left?

There's nothing left in Pittsburgh for us anymore, so we'll never move back


7.) Anything else you'd like to add?

Love Pittsburgh, but hate the government and the good ole boy mentality. There's lots of sterotypes about that happening in the South, but I've got to say it's worse in Pittsburgh than here in SC.