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Old 02-17-2019, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Northern Appalachia
6,553 posts, read 7,405,342 times
Reputation: 8042

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeygirl063 View Post
as a person who grew up in PA and went to a very small school (200 in my graduating class) I think small schools are far superior. The district we live in now is so huge has 6 high school, 8 middle schools and 39 elementary schools. Plus option schools.

Look at Erie with a single high school that is utterly ridiculous . The city I live in has a population close to Erie's. We are still dealing with some overcrowding but it has improved.

There are advantages and disadvantages in both guess it depends on what you are looking for. We have a pretty high property tax here in OR and NO sales tax.
Erie School district has two high schools. They are Erie High School and Northwest Pennsylvania Collegiate Academy. In 2017, Strong Vincent and East High Schools became middle schools when these former high schools consolidated with Central Tech High School to become Erie High School. The district undertook the reconfiguration to save money to help offset a projected deficit of $9.5 million in the 2017-18 school year.

Northwest Pennsylvania Collegiate Academy has around 853 students and Erie High School has around 2,400. For comparison, Erie McDowell has an enrollment of 2200.
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Old 02-22-2019, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,832 posts, read 1,060,086 times
Reputation: 1876
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
https://whyy.org/articles/much-teach...-pennsylvania/

This US News and World Report?. Yeah, Pennsylvania is 11. From the bottom.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...ings/education

No Pennsylvania is ranked 11th+ in public education and is in the top 10 for teacher salary.

http://www.nea.org/assets/docs/18041...eport_2018.pdf

Here is a thorough report to review. Not some silly click bait.

U.S News also gave these rankings to states with the most public transit funding. And they ranked Alsaka of ALL places #1. lol

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...ation?slide=11

When you look at online 'rankings' you always have to look at the source and criteria and I am finding more and more that it is flawed. I am experienced in source finding.

You keep quoting STARTING SALARY at 41k. Teacher tenure is a very real thing, and each year you receive a generous raise.

I come from a family of teacher's in Pennsylvania. I know how much they make.

Rural district in Tioga County: Retired salary was 80k. That was in 2005. They actually made more money out of retirement with their pension than as a teacher.

Current teacher in Tioga County. 47 years old. makes 90k

Current Teacher in Cumberland County, 39. makes 70k

Pennsylvania teacher's are very well paid.

I have no idea what Maryland teachers make. I attended St. Mary's County School District for 3 years growing up in Maryland and I know at the time they had a teacher shortage because of low pay.

I know in Pennsylvania it is very hard to find a teaching job. Because they pay and receive a very generous retirement package worth hundreds of thousands nearly million plus dollars.

Last edited by rowhomecity; 02-22-2019 at 05:34 PM..
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Old 02-23-2019, 12:14 AM
 
58 posts, read 25,627 times
Reputation: 77
The OP caught my attention using "less" on the subject line while discussing education.
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Old 02-23-2019, 05:04 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
36,408 posts, read 46,974,756 times
Reputation: 47324
Quote:
Originally Posted by rowhomecity View Post
No Pennsylvania is ranked 11th+ in public education and is in the top 10 for teacher salary.

http://www.nea.org/assets/docs/18041...eport_2018.pdf

Here is a thorough report to review. Not some silly click bait.

U.S News also gave these rankings to states with the most public transit funding. And they ranked Alsaka of ALL places #1. lol

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...ation?slide=11

When you look at online 'rankings' you always have to look at the source and criteria and I am finding more and more that it is flawed. I am experienced in source finding.

You keep quoting STARTING SALARY at 41k. Teacher tenure is a very real thing, and each year you receive a generous raise.

I come from a family of teacher's in Pennsylvania. I know how much they make.

Rural district in Tioga County: Retired salary was 80k. That was in 2005. They actually made more money out of retirement with their pension than as a teacher.

Current teacher in Tioga County. 47 years old. makes 90k

Current Teacher in Cumberland County, 39. makes 70k

Pennsylvania teacher's are very well paid.

I have no idea what Maryland teachers make. I attended St. Mary's County School District for 3 years growing up in Maryland and I know at the time they had a teacher shortage because of low pay.

I know in Pennsylvania it is very hard to find a teaching job. Because they pay and receive a very generous retirement package worth hundreds of thousands nearly million plus dollars.

Come back when you actually know what you're looking at. Or rather when you can interpret what it is you're looking at.
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Old 02-25-2019, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Kennett Square, PA
1,794 posts, read 2,881,900 times
Reputation: 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
That is true. That particular poster gets a little carried away sometimes with their pro PA viewpoints.

PA is a much larger state with a lot more economic variances compared to Maryland. While the public schools in Southeastern PA might be the best in the nation, that won't matter on a statewide ranking if Northern PA and Western PA are below average.

That being said, PA public school system finishes in the middle of the pack in most metrics. However, the SEPA enclave (Montgomery, Chester, Delaware, Bucks) have several nationally ranked districts.

And part of the the reason PA has a lot of school districts is due to the commonwealths designation of townships, boroughs, municipalities and zip-code coverage. Its a confusing system with mixed results. It works out tremendously for the upper middle class and wealthy areas of PA, but doesn't work out well for poor districts.

You have Radnor School District (one of the wealthiest top performing in the nation), and Chester-Upland one of the poorest and lowest performing in the nation a mere 20 minutes from each other, in the same county.

That being said, I think PA's district setup is smart, but the lack of funding for poor districts is a clear deterrent for those poor districts to improve. PA has always been a very polarized state when it comes to demographics, income, crime, schools, etc. But that will lead us off topic.
Got THAT right! I teach in the Delaware County Juvenile Detention system, and most of my students come from the Chester, Darby and Upper Darby School Districts. Many of these teens are reading at the 3rd to 5th grade levels, according to our intake assessments. Now we do get a sprinkling (perhaps 1 or 2 per month) from Haverford, Springfield and Wallingford who are reading at the college level, but it's a very slim number. That said, the former group does have an alarming truancy rate.
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Old 02-27-2019, 12:19 PM
 
Location: The Flagship City
2,573 posts, read 3,260,412 times
Reputation: 1783
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
Erie School district has two high schools. They are Erie High School and Northwest Pennsylvania Collegiate Academy. In 2017, Strong Vincent and East High Schools became middle schools when these former high schools consolidated with Central Tech High School to become Erie High School. The district undertook the reconfiguration to save money to help offset a projected deficit of $9.5 million in the 2017-18 school year.

Northwest Pennsylvania Collegiate Academy has around 853 students and Erie High School has around 2,400. For comparison, Erie McDowell has an enrollment of 2200.
While you are technically correct Northwest Collegiate Academy is a magnet school and not available to all students. In other words, the city of Erie has one high school available to all residents without admission requirements and one college preparatory, magnet high school available to high performing students. I think in the long run Erie high will be a good thing for the Erie School District, but it will take some time for the district, parents, and students to get used to such a large high school.
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Old 02-27-2019, 12:25 PM
 
Location: The Flagship City
2,573 posts, read 3,260,412 times
Reputation: 1783
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
https://whyy.org/articles/much-teach...-pennsylvania/

This US News and World Report?. Yeah, Pennsylvania is 11. From the bottom.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...ings/education
This post is incorrect and according to the link you posted PA ranks higher than Maryland in K-12 education. You are looking at higher education rankings and not the K-12.
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Old 02-27-2019, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Northern Appalachia
6,553 posts, read 7,405,342 times
Reputation: 8042
Quote:
Originally Posted by trackstar13 View Post
While you are technically correct Northwest Collegiate Academy is a magnet school and not available to all students. In other words, the city of Erie has one high school available to all residents without admission requirements and one college preparatory, magnet high school available to high performing students. I think in the long run Erie high will be a good thing for the Erie School District, but it will take some time for the district, parents, and students to get used to such a large high school.
The point is, it is really not that big. There are at least 20 high school in the state that are larger. There used to be a lot more in Western PA but enrollment has declined in most schools. Penn Hills used to graduate 1200 in each class. I graduated with almost 600 in a small town rural school.
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Old 02-27-2019, 05:17 PM
 
Location: The Flagship City
2,573 posts, read 3,260,412 times
Reputation: 1783
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
The point is, it is really not that big. There are at least 20 high school in the state that are larger. There used to be a lot more in Western PA but enrollment has declined in most schools. Penn Hills used to graduate 1200 in each class. I graduated with almost 600 in a small town rural school.
I still think you are missing the point here. Erie High School is extremely large by Erie County and Northwest PA standards and McDowell is the only school that is similar in size in the region. In the PIAA District 10 Erie High School is the largest school out of 50 public/private schools in Erie, Crawford, Warren, Mercer, and Venango counties. I have no problem with larger schools if it is consistent across the state or region, but if you have a few large schools in one region like McDowell and Erie High, it is really hard for the schools to put together an athletics and activities schedule and to facilitate the general logistics of getting the students to and from the schools, feeding and educating the students. Erie is in a weird situation with these two large schools surrounded by much smaller schools.
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Old 02-27-2019, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Northern Appalachia
6,553 posts, read 7,405,342 times
Reputation: 8042
Quote:
Originally Posted by trackstar13 View Post
I still think you are missing the point here. Erie High School is extremely large by Erie County and Northwest PA standards and McDowell is the only school that is similar in size in the region. In the PIAA District 10 Erie High School is the largest school out of 50 public/private schools in Erie, Crawford, Warren, Mercer, and Venango counties. I have no problem with larger schools if it is consistent across the state or region, but if you have a few large schools in one region like McDowell and Erie High, it is really hard for the schools to put together an athletics and activities schedule and to facilitate the general logistics of getting the students to and from the schools, feeding and educating the students. Erie is in a weird situation with these two large schools surrounded by much smaller schools.
The original topic here is, "Does Pennsylvania need less school districts?" Your point is interesting, but there were 28 posts here before you mentioned sports. Your argument is PS should not consolidate school districts because consolidated larger high schools would not have other comparable high schools with whom they could compete.

There are a couple problems with this argument. The first is, consolidating school districts is a separate issue from consolidating individual schools. Many school districts have operating for a number of years with multiple high schools before merging them into fewer schools. A couple that come to the Armstrong School district, which has changed several times over the past couple decades. The most recent change consolidated what was once four high schools into two. Another was the Albert Gallatin school district, which at one time had Albert Gallatin, German Township, and Fairchance-Georges High Schools. They operated three high schools for 22 years.

Regarding large high schools in Erie County, you need to look at the PIAA map of Pennsylvania and the classification of schools. See Pennsylvania Interscholastic Athletic Association for football classifications.

If we take classifications for football, PA has 94 6A schools. Seventy-five of those schools are in Districts 1, 3, 11, and 12, which are all located in Southeastern PA. Ten are located in Districts 7 (WPIAL) and District 8 (Pittsburgh City League). These area probably account for less than 40% of the area of PA. The other nine districts are scattered across the entire northern and central regions of PA. See map below. Look at schools such as Williamsport, Altoona, and State College, which are in a similar situation to the two Erie Schools and often have to schedule them for regular season contests. District 2 in the northeastern part of the state has the three other 6A schools. The bottom line is there is no solution to this problem. Would you suggest that McDowell split into 2-3 smaller schools so they can compete with other Erie County schools?



The OP's question had to do with consolidating the 500 school districts in the state. In some cases these districts could be consolidated to save administrative costs, and then look at consolidating buildings over time. The issues are declining enrollment in public schools, increased costs, and declining tax base. This is what caused the Erie High School merger. It is a problem facing the overwhelming majority of school districts outside of southeastern PA. Some of their schools are growing so quickly that they are splitting high schools into multiple high schools. See the West Chester school district, which has split high schools into a new school.
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