Fairfield, Liberty township PD (Penn, Sylvania: buying, inspection, living)

[vbeachbum]

I spoke with Mr. Then, Cheif of liberty (fairfield, PA) twp PD after my girlfriend was busted for selling ciggs to a minor. They only busted the store not her. 228.00 fine to the the store. The store was not in liberty twp, it was in cumberland twp.. I spoke with Cheif Then and he said they do not necessarily use minors to do the sting....how can a store be charged with selling to monors when a minor does not buy it?...what a scam and dishonest scam to get funds for a losing town and twp.
...oh the name of the Police is cheif Then...I did not mispell unless he lied to me....tc all

[WoodturnerMike]

Did she ask the buyer for ID?
I think the idea and spirit behind that law is to prevent minors from buying and smoking cigarettes. Which of course are proven to cause any number of diseases as well as death. The economic well being of a community isn't the issue, besides it was the store that was fined, not the community or for that matter your girlfriend. When the chief spelled his name for you, did he also spell his title?

[vbeachbum]

I realize what cigerettes can do to a person and so does she, that is not the point here. Read the post again. She did not ask for ID. She has worked in retail business for many years some that even sold alcohol. She is very diligent in her duties and has never had this happen before. If the person did not look over 18 she would not have sold them. I was also told that the ID of the person purchasing them does not have to be revealed. I spoke to an investigator from my local township police and he replied "they are always pulling that chicken **** stuff (Liberty Township) and it is not right". What do you know about the economic position of the community since you live in NJ? I really don't know why I took the time to even reply to your post.

[jfeagin]

Still can't figure out what the big deal is unless she got docked pay or fired for it... The employer got fined... frankly here in Fairfield, I can only think of about 3 places that sell cigarettes...

Anyway, the police are law enforcement, they don't make the laws they enforce them. Federal not state law says that anyone who appears under the age of 27 gets "carded:. A LOT of people fall under that law and underage smoking is a big problem here. Is it BS? I think so, just like speed traps, VA says "no radar detectors", paying per capita tax, inspection stickers, the list goes on and on. However it is the law and if you don't like it, vote (while you still can)for people who want to strike down BS laws like that.

Stores are taking it to the extreme. In Sterling VA, my friend, who is in his 60's got carded for buying beer. Everyone no matter what, is carded to avoid these kinds of fines. As to the economic situation here...I think we are better than most due to the proximity to MD and DC, my guess is that most of the people who are not retired work in those places (including myself).

<RANT ALERT> It is just indicative of our eroding freedoms and the nanny/police state we live in, gone are the days of common sense and using your judgment and we are now in the days of "tow the line" and "your papers please." Looks like the totalitarians ditched Europe and moved here </RANT ALERT>

John

[vbeachbum]

It is a big deal when you actually did nothing wrong, and you are up for an evaluation. Especially having to work a bullcrap job like that (money wise i mean). All jobs are important. But when a law enforcement agency can break the law to "enforce" the law, with no reguard to the person they are doing it to. And have that person..that did not actually break the law have to answer to people that don't know them personally (the company that paid the fine, as she never had a chance to meet the supposed minor or the police official), the BS they pulled was on her and the reason why no proof was ever shown was because there was none. I spoke with the chief of police that did it and he told me that he did not have to prove it. PA law does not require them to prove it. What a bunch of BS. The person that was the cause of the fine has not received their their yearly evalualtion yet, although it has been over a year. We assume it is because the manager knew it was BS but corporate looks at it as money out of their pocket and the hell with the one falsely accused. If the evaualtion is negative because of that, there is a backup plan to get out of that store and possibly seek legal recourse against the jurisdiction that caused the deformation unlawfully.

[WoodturnerMike]

I stand by my original reply to you..............But will add, if you're registered to vote and do in fact exercise that right, if you don't agree with a particular law, work toward having it changed. As for "knowing about the economic position of a community without living there", my point is/was economics does not play into the reason for enactment and enforcement of that particular law. Having spent 30 years as a police officer in Pa. I'm somewhat familiar with Pa. law and law enforcement. By the way, most monies collected through fines go to the state, a small portion goes to the local municipality, not enough to save one in dire economic straits. In addition the chief told you that they don't necessarily use minors, he didn't say they never do and didn't say who they used in this case. At any rate your girlfriend didn't check the person's ID to determine the exact age so neither you nor her nor the store know the answer to that. The state of Pa. through Check It wants all those appearing to be under the age of 27 to be ID checked. Last, I would imagine if the store felt strongly about this, they'd fight the case in court rather than pay a fine and possibly set some sort of precedent and the prosecution would have had to produce their "agent" and prove their case. When your innocent you don't plead guilty, at least I wouldn't.
http://www.dsf.health.state.pa.us/health/CWP/view.asp?A=190&Q=244660&pp=12&n=1
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