Is PA depressing? (Pittsburgh, McKeesport, Turtle Creek: condo, salary, restaurants)

[ShadowCaver]

OHlady - what part of PA are you painting this picture? The entire state, or a particular city/region? During your time elsewhere, did you find that area more proactive, no corrupt pols, etc.? Ok, I am seriously not really trying to sound smartarsed, but just wonder, as I'm interviewing in Williamsport this coming week - and would like your insight. And, I really really hope that PA is NOT depressing ifin we head that direction!!!

I imagine that like most/all places, there be good and bad, and can find depressing outlook about any area. To me, life is too short, and I will dig and find, and then enjoy the best that any area has to offer. For example, this part of Indiana where I am now is terrible in regards to my main hobby/interest, caving or being able to bounce over hills in search of waterfalls - yet, the geology here is unique due to the glaciers, along w/ there being a minor league hockey team in town, Chicago & Lake Michigan & Dunes Shore Park only 2.5-3 hours away, along w/ very good restaurants, state parks, and places to ride our bicycles, make this attractive, even w/ the terribly cold winds.

[Dawne]

ShadowCaver, you'll be happy to know that there are many waterfalls in PA just an hour or two east of the Williamsport area, specifically Ricketts Glen State Park and Bushkill Falls. I'm sure there are other areas, perhaps northward from Williamsport toward the Finger Lakes of New York. I'm not sure about any caves, but I'd imagine there are some around somewhere, as there are many hills and mountains in this area.

Good luck with your interview. Let us know how it goes!

[Shenandoah]

Originally Posted by ShadowCaver

For example, this part of Indiana where I am now is terrible in regards to my main hobby/interest, caving or being able to bounce over hills in search of waterfalls - yet, the geology here is unique due to the glaciers, along w/ there being a minor league hockey team in town, Chicago & Lake Michigan & Dunes Shore Park only 2.5-3 hours away, along w/ very good restaurants, state parks, and places to ride our bicycles, make this attractive, even w/ the terribly cold winds.

If you are interested in the geology of an area after the glacial period, there is a park in western PA called Moraine State Park - and if you're interested in glaciers, you'll realise what the moraine is. As for waterfalls and caves, lots of those here also. The Laurel Mountains has many creeks and streams coming down off of the mountain. I've fly fished some of them, and hiked to the headwaters of one stream near Connellsville PA that as it is coming out of the mountain, it's running over rocks, and into a natural cave as a waterfall, inside the cave. It's a hidden treasure.

Laurel Caverns is near there, also, where I used to go spelunking, and you can still go into the unlighted/unfinished rough area. Wish I could still do it.

And no, Pennsylvania is definitely NOT depressing. It's the person, their own perceptions and outlook that defines an area - not the area. I find beauty, history, nature, the re-growth of Pittsburgh, it's fabulous museums, rivers, and topography. And yes, there are 'bad' areas, areas where the city / county officials have and are taxing their particular area to death, and it shows in the area, the businesses and the people. But, it's not the entire state, it's not an entire section, it's not an entire county. It's pockets here and there that you hope the people running it would come to their senses and realise that taxing more and more does not necessarily mean mo' money.
Just $$ in someone's pocket.

blessings, Shen

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by ShadowCaver

OHlady - what part of PA are you painting this picture? The entire state, or a particular city/region? During your time elsewhere, did you find that area more proactive, no corrupt pols, etc.? Ok, I am seriously not really trying to sound smartarsed, but just wonder

Of course, there are corrupt politicians everywhere; although I most recently lived in Cincinnati, where the politicians are too stupid to be corrupt. The difference I observe in Pennsylvania politics is a sense of entitlement. A vast majority honestly believe that they deserve the kickbacks, etc. And when they're caught, they don't have the grace to act contrite or apologetic; on the contrary, they're smug and arrogant. Politics in Pennsylvania are truly conservative in the strictest meaning of the word -- nobody wants anything to change. My experiences are as a newspaper reporter in NW Pennsylvania and all over Ohio; now I live in SE Pennsylvania, which seems to be the political entitlement capital of the world! LOL

As far as waterfalls, etc., go, Pennsylvania is full of mountains, Williamsport is smack in the middle of them, and with mountains come waterfalls, caves, etc. Pennsylvania truly is a beautiful state.

You're right that every place has its good and its bad points, and no one will ever have to agree on what those are. It's not all bad. It's that beer in the grocery store thing that rankles me most.

Good luck with your interview!

[toobusytoday]

I read in the newspaper yesterday that there is a bill in PA congress now to allow sales of 6 packs. PennLive.com

[Dawne]

They're currently remodeling our Weis Market and rumor has it that the reason is they're adding an aisle for beer (and maybe wine). I think it's a test/pilot program to see how it goes.

An observation - PA may be conservative in the rural areas, but the cities are quite liberal. It's the rural PAers who vote Republican but who are outnumbered by the Dems in the cities during presidential elections, so PA usually ends up as a Democrat/liberal state for the electoral college votes.

[Ohiogirl81]

I'll believe it when I see it! According to the article, the bill is to allow six-pack sales at beer distributors only, not grocery stores or convenience stores, and "The bill requires products to be sold in minimum packages of six containers totaling at least 66 fluid ounces."

That leaves out my favorite Young's Double Chocolate Stout (which I imported last week from a Kroger store in Cincinnati ... don't tell the LCB), which is sold in four-packs. Now I'm really depressed.

[IHATEPA!!!]

First off, I realize that there will be depressing places, people, etc. no matter where you go. that's life. I also acknowledge that, to an extent, things such as this are a state of mind.

However, based on my experiences living in PA, I have come to hate living here. As pointed out in this thread, our politicians are arguably the most conservative in the entire country, and actually feel entitled to kickbacks, bribes, and whatnot. The lack of shame when caught was also mentioned and duly noted on my part.

Pennsylvania's biggest problem, in my opinion, is a resistance to change. For example, people in this thread and others related to this topic have mentioned about Pittsburgh constantly trying to resurrect the steel industry YEARS after the bottom fell out in approximately 1980. If they would've tried to look at other options and move on and rebuild right when it happened, they could've climbed out of the hole by the early 90's, if not sooner. Instead, they are STILL languishing in a largely **** poor economy almost 25 years later! Granted, they have made some strides towards improving. Pittsburgh does have some top quality colleges and health care facilities. But, this state as a whole needs to purge the old timers out of the political system and get some younger, fresher blood in this state with fresh, new ideas that will help PA move forward and get PA out of its mostly stagnant state that it's currently in.

Another issue I have with PA, unfortunately, is the attitudes of the people as a whole. This in another reason why this state is depressing. People constantly talk about the weather being gloomy(and I agree, by the way!). Well, the people are just as bad if not worse. I mean, most of PA's people fall into one of two categories:

1)Grumpy old people-This ties in with the resistance to change issue. This group seems to be stuck in the 1940's-1970's. They seem to be so convinced that the "good ol' days" were so much better that they steadfastly refuse to embrace modern times. Thus, they strike me as bitter, jaded old crones. I know, I'll grow old myself one day. But, I'm going to make it a point not to be grumpy and constantly pine for the "good ol' days" of the turn of the 21st century! PA old people seem to most personify the gloomy, callous, chip on the shoulder attitude that plenty of PA residents seem to have.

2)Hillbillies- PA has often been described as being Pittsburgh in the west, Philadelphia in the east, and Kentucky in between. These people seem to come right off the pages of any Jeff Foxworthy "You Might Be A Redneck If..." joke book. They reinforce many negative stereotypes of society in general. By that, I mean people that come across as lazy, dumb as dog ****, totally lacking in hygiene, abusing Gov't and state assistance programs, constantly having kids when they can't even begin to afford them, among other things. If that's how somebody wants to live, that's their business. The issue I have with this group of people is that they think that that kind of life is the best thing going, and they have no desire to even try and better themselves. In fact, some of them are even PROUD of it! They seem to wallow in their ****tiness! PA, along w/ Wisconsin, seems to want to make itself into the "Dixie of the North". PA deserves the name "Pennsyltucky"!

I have met some good, decent people here in PA though, and I'm glad for the experience. Unfortunately, they are few and far between. Maybe I have something to do with that, granted, but I feel I have to shoot straight regarding this issue. In general, people seem to be callous and have a chip on their shoulder here in PA. And, PA residents sense of humor seem to be the mean, biting, sarcastic kind that is malicious and cruel. And that's another reason why PA is depressing. The attitudes of the people in general set the tone, IMHO. This state is never going to get out of the doldrums until the people learn to accept change and subsequently adapt to it, and also develop better attitudes in general. Right now, though, the people seem to prisoners of their own memories in PA. This state seems to be a black hole of the highest order that just sucks the life out of everybody within its borders.

[ShadowCaver]

Well, don't hold your breath... "The bill moves to the full Senate, where it might not see a vote until fall."

Thanks very much too all who have commented/posted regarding the state of the state of PA's emotions. If the dice would roll and the dominoes fall in the proper manner such that we find ourselves in that part of the world, I do look forward to partaking of some of the local fine microbrewed beverages, bopping over various hills, collecting mud in underground holes, and taking youngest boy child fishing in the flowing streams. I've only flown over PA, and from those window seats, was always fascinated by the geology there. Again, thanks!

...gulp... ...ok, was typing this when the above post appeared too - wow... now I am going to have an extra brew w/ my lunch...


btw, I am proud to be a hillbilly. as w/ most labels, there are various definitions and/or degrees thereof.

for the heck of it, and sorry if you've relayed such info before, but for the sake of this thread, where abouts in PA have you lived/traveled/experienced that which you are speaking of? For how long? You from PA originally? Where abouts are you thinking of heading to? Just curious...

[toobusytoday]

Perhaps it would help if those of you that have lived in Pennsylvania your whole lives move out and experience another state or two. There are a couple of more groups in PA, ihatepa, those that chose to stay and help improve their area and those of us that moved here. I have heard about the heyday of Bethlehem Steel around here but everyone I know that worked for it has gone on to other jobs.

We CHOSE Pennsylvania and appreciate the beauty of the hills and the warmness of the people. Btw, It never would have occured to me to put buying beer in small quantities as a priority. Schools, intelligent population, warm and friendly people, low unemployment rate, beauty of the area..... I have all that in my neck of the woods.

When I was younger I cared more about politics but as I've gotten older I put my effort into supporting causes I feel strongly about - world poverty, enviromental groups, local volunteering and vote every election. So, when some of the politicians screw up and I read about it in the paper, I just don't vote for them in the next election.