Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I took a mini vacation during the pandemic to northwestern PA/Allegheny National Forest. It's absolutely incredible that we do not market this area more to tourists. Some of the small towns are coming back or doing okay (North East, Kane) but so many are just languishing (Bradford, Warren, etc.). It's also a shame that PennDOT ripped apart so many main streets across the state and replaced them with car-centric 4-lane roadways through the heart of town .
West Virginia, for what it's worth, has done a pretty good job marketing itself for outdoor tourism and I think the Northwest/northern tier could do a much better job of it. In contrast, I do feel like the Laurel Highlands area has done a decent job marketing itself. But you never hear about northwestern PA/Allegheny National Forest. Maybe it would be good to market the area to Canadian tourists? Tax free shopping and mountains (don't really have that in southern Ontario).
Yes... the way Penn Dot is organized because the state is so large is actually quite decentralized and it is very frustrating..
There are different regions and "Penn Dot Districts" and each district mandates their own design standards, and basically engineering teams so, while the state mandated minimums are enacted and I will say Pennsylvania is pretty uniform in its overall road "style"... some districts are better than others at elevating the project design to retain other factors like walkability in towns and urban cores.
I do think Penn Dot is becoming more aware of this though... but it is just not quite there yet...
As the old SEPTA slogan would say.... "We're getting there"...
I will say I am blown away at the new 83 project in Harrisburg. It is an 8 lane modern highway and probably the first large scale project I have seen Penn DOT really do well outside of the 476 Northeast Extension... but technically that is the Turnpike Commission and not Penn Dot.
Oh Pennsylvania... I love you so much. But the desire to localize all forms of government in small fiefdoms is probably what is holding it back most.
Rendell actually wanted to consolidate local governments back when he was Governor. To save tax money and create efficiencies. It was meet with unbelievable resistance...
And yes the Northern Tier of Pennsylvania is incredibly beautiful. There are a few touristy towns and so much potential.
I encourage for a return visit to check out the Pennsylvania Grand Canyon, Cherry Springs State Park (one of the best places to stargaze in North America), and Wellsboro, Pennsylvania. Also if you make it up that way and stay for a long weekend it is worth taking an easy 50 minute drive to Watkins Glenn, NY and Corning, NY... both also are very pretty. But I agree that Northern Tier of the state has lots of tourism potential as it is the most "untouched" region of the state overall...
Williamsport, Pennsylvania is kind of seen as the gateway city to that Northern Tier. Its small downtown area actually has made a nice comeback with some nice restaurants and cafes and shops in its downtown. That areas mall was shut down due to anchor store closures.
Therefore pleasantly enough, Williamsport's downtown anchors a Wegmans and Kohls so there actually has been a nice amount of growth. It reminds me of a bit of a slightly less polished version of Corning, NY or a smaller version of Scranton, PA... it also has tons of potential as it is only about 60 minutes from State College...
MarketStEl: I am able to embed the YouTube link and share, in regards to that Youtube link. Maybe you just have to be logged in to your YouTube account?? And I agree. Pittsburgh is a huge gem, with so many legacy assets that punch above its weight and really can compete with a metro of 4 - 5 million even though it is only a metro of 2 million.... If it can get its airport back in gear (which they were making some impressive investments pre covid) I can see business growth there increasing quickly given how affordable it is and how heavy in research CMU and UPitt are focused.
Pittsburgh at this time is more affordable than both the Lehigh Valley and Susquehanna Valley...
Southbound: Yes if the state or a consortium of sorts can really invest in some business incubators in: Southeast Pennsylvania, Lehigh Valley, Susquehanna Valley and Pittsburgh I see lots of growth, as Pennsylvania is home to many many impressive universities in all these regions. I personally would advocate for a synergy type plan between State College and Harrisburg since both are only about 60 minutes from one another and Harrisburg... unlike many state capitals across the nation is not home to its State University... (Although Penn State Medical School and Hospital are located just 15 mins East of Harrisburg in Hershey)....
Pullenaway: I am actually surprised at West Virginia and would want to see the link that more people moved from PA to WV than vice versa.
As WV basically lost population and its economy overall is in decline.
In regards to Ohio, I can see Pennsylvanians from western Pennsylvania moving there. Especially Columbus which actually is growing at a very healthy rate and actually kind of reminds me of a larger version of the Harrisburg metro....
In regards to Delaware. The Central Portion of Delaware from Middletown, DE to Dover, DE has been growing the fastest. Real Estate costs are affordable... it is still fairly close to Philadelphia, Baltimore, DC and Beaches.... and property taxes are low. DE though is not known for having good public schools and it has a high income tax rate, but no sales tax. So as I say it. You all pay in some form.
There is really no strong economy in this part of Delaware, so it really is a lot of retirees. Think of it as the "Mid Atlantic's version of Florida".....
But many of these people moving to Delaware are retirees from Pennsylvania who want to cash out... buy a little more affordable home while being close to family in Pennsylvania and also be closer to beaches. This is at least the trend I am seeing.....
Last edited by rowhomecity; 04-30-2021 at 03:40 AM..
Yes... the way Penn Dot is organized because the state is so large is actually quite decentralized and it is very frustrating..
There are different regions and "Penn Dot Districts" and each district mandates their own design standards, and basically engineering teams so, while the state mandated minimums are enacted and I will say Pennsylvania is pretty uniform in its overall road "style"... some districts are better than others at elevating the project design to retain other factors like walkability in towns and urban cores.
I do think Penn Dot is becoming more aware of this though... but it is just not quite there yet...
As the old SEPTA slogan would say.... "We're getting there"...
I will say I am blown away at the new 83 project in Harrisburg. It is an 8 lane modern highway and probably the first large scale project I have seen Penn DOT really do well outside of the 476 Northeast Extension... but technically that is the Turnpike Commission and not Penn Dot.
Oh Pennsylvania... I love you so much. But the desire to localize all forms of government in small fiefdoms is probably what is holding it back most.
Rendell actually wanted to consolidate local governments back when he was Governor. To save tax money and create efficiencies. It was meet with unbelievable resistance...
And yes the Northern Tier of Pennsylvania is incredibly beautiful. There are a few touristy towns and so much potential.
I encourage for a return visit to check out the Pennsylvania Grand Canyon, Cherry Springs State Park (one of the best places to stargaze in North America), and Wellsboro, Pennsylvania. Also if you make it up that way and stay for a long weekend it is worth taking an easy 50 minute drive to Watkins Glenn, NY and Corning, NY... both also are very pretty. But I agree that Northern Tier of the state has lots of tourism potential as it is the most "untouched" region of the state overall...
Williamsport, Pennsylvania is kind of seen as the gateway city to that Northern Tier. Its small downtown area actually has made a nice comeback with some nice restaurants and cafes and shops in its downtown. That areas mall was shut down due to anchor store closures.
Therefore pleasantly enough, Williamsport's downtown anchors a Wegmans and Kohls so there actually has been a nice amount of growth. It reminds me of a bit of a slightly less polished version of Corning, NY or a smaller version of Scranton, PA... it also has tons of potential as it is only about 60 minutes from State College...
MarketStEl: I am able to embed the YouTube link and share, in regards to that Youtube link. Maybe you just have to be logged in to your YouTube account?? And I agree. Pittsburgh is a huge gem, with so many legacy assets that punch above its weight and really can compete with a metro of 4 - 5 million even though it is only a metro of 2 million.... If it can get its airport back in gear (which they were making some impressive investments pre covid) I can see business growth there increasing quickly given how affordable it is and how heavy in research CMU and UPitt are focused.
Pittsburgh at this time is more affordable than both the Lehigh Valley and Susquehanna Valley...
Southbound: Yes if the state or a consortium of sorts can really invest in some business incubators in: Southeast Pennsylvania, Lehigh Valley, Susquehanna Valley and Pittsburgh I see lots of growth, as Pennsylvania is home to many many impressive universities in all these regions. I personally would advocate for a synergy type plan between State College and Harrisburg since both are only about 60 minutes from one another and Harrisburg... unlike many state capitals across the nation is not home to its State University... (Although Penn State Medical School and Hospital are located just 15 mins East of Harrisburg in Hershey)....
Pullenaway: I am actually surprised at West Virginia and would want to see the link that more people moved from PA to WV than vice versa.
As WV basically lost population and its economy overall is in decline.
In regards to Ohio, I can see Pennsylvanians from western Pennsylvania moving there. Especially Columbus which actually is growing at a very healthy rate and actually kind of reminds me of a larger version of the Harrisburg metro....
In regards to Delaware. The Central Portion of Delaware from Middletown, DE to Dover, DE has been growing the fastest. Real Estate costs are affordable... it is still fairly close to Philadelphia, Baltimore, DC and Beaches.... and property taxes are low. DE though is not known for having good public schools and it has a high income tax rate, but no sales tax. So as I say it. You all pay in some form.
There is really no strong economy in this part of Delaware, so it really is a lot of retirees. Think of it as the "Mid Atlantic's version of Florida".....
But many of these people moving to Delaware are retirees from Pennsylvania who want to cash out... buy a little more affordable home while being close to family in Pennsylvania and also be closer to beaches. This is at least the trend I am seeing.....
The eastern panhandle of WV is doing quite well and Morgantown because of WVU. I’m interested in seeing the northern panhandle and Huntington and Charleston are doing. After this census it’s quite possible Huntington will be the largest city in WV. Home of Marshall University of course.
I think Columbus metro is likely taking a good number of residents from western pa (Erie and Pittsburgh). I have a friend who lives in Worthington, which is a northern suburb in Franklin County. He said he’s been seeing a lot of PA license Plates traveling US 23 between Delaware City and the 270 loop around Columbus. Also, Sheetz just expanded to Columbus this year opening the first 2 of three stores in Delaware County (North) and grove city / groveport Ohio (south) suburbs. Sheetz was always in Cleveland and Far East Ohio. Being that Columbus is a transplant city nobody there would know what it is unless you are from western pa. Why decide to expand there now when it’s been booming for the last 30 years? Probably former PA people emailing the company saying they should expand there. Who knows. But the PA to Ohio migration would not surprise me given the Columbus economy is better than western pa and the fact one round trip drive to there takes the same amount of time as a one way drive from Pittsburgh to downtown Philadelphia. Columbus is much closer to Pittsburgh than Philly.
The eastern panhandle of WV is doing quite well and Morgantown because of WVU. I’m interested in seeing the northern panhandle and Huntington and Charleston are doing. After this census it’s quite possible Huntington will be the largest city in WV. Home of Marshall University of course.
I think Columbus metro is likely taking a good number of residents from western pa (Erie and Pittsburgh). I have a friend who lives in Worthington, which is a northern suburb in Franklin County. He said he’s been seeing a lot of PA license Plates traveling US 23 between Delaware City and the 270 loop around Columbus. Also, Sheetz just expanded to Columbus this year opening the first 2 of three stores in Delaware County (North) and grove city / groveport Ohio (south) suburbs. Sheetz was always in Cleveland and Far East Ohio. Being that Columbus is a transplant city nobody there would know what it is unless you are from western pa. Why decide to expand there now when it’s been booming for the last 30 years? Probably former PA people emailing the company saying they should expand there. Who knows. But the PA to Ohio migration would not surprise me given the Columbus economy is better than western pa and the fact one round trip drive to there takes the same amount of time as a one way drive from Pittsburgh to downtown Philadelphia. Columbus is much closer to Pittsburgh than Philly.
Yes... I agree Columbus has been pulling in people from Western PA...
There are a few isolated pockets of WV seeing some economic development. But overall WV is on a major economic decline. WV never diversified its economy and it just is all a mess there to be honest. I believe it was actually one of only two states in the USA to see a population decline over the past 10 years.
There is no doubt about it that Eastern Pennsylvania from the Susquehanna, Lehigh and Southeastern portions of the state are booming....
I guess you can say some people are retiring from Western PA to WV because it does have lower property taxes...
But in terms of jobs WV is pretty subpar... Columbus though is doing quite well. Columbus really does reminds me of a larger version of the Harrisburg metro...
Do you have a link to the In and Out migration for Pennsylvania... to verify? I just find WV odd other than for retirees who do not care about jobs... Ohio and namely Columbus though I can understand...
I will say I am blown away at the new 83 project in Harrisburg. It is an 8 lane modern highway and probably the first large scale project I have seen Penn DOT really do well outside of the 476 Northeast Extension... but technically that is the Turnpike Commission and not Penn Dot.
The City of Harrisburg is opposed to PennDOT's plan to double the width of I-83 through the city. It argues that it would bring too many cars into the city center when the city is trying to reduce their impact.
ISTR that a similar effort to consolidate New Jersey's many municipal governments foundered as well, so that's not unique to Pennsylvania. Remember, the municipal consolidation movement began in Philadelphia in 1854 and pretty much came to an end in the Northeast around World War I. Since then, local municipalities up this way tend to guard their prerogatives pretty fiercely.
Quote:
And yes the Northern Tier of Pennsylvania is incredibly beautiful. There are a few touristy towns and so much potential.
I encourage for a return visit to check out the Pennsylvania Grand Canyon, Cherry Springs State Park (one of the best places to stargaze in North America), and Wellsboro, Pennsylvania. Also if you make it up that way and stay for a long weekend it is worth taking an easy 50 minute drive to Watkins Glenn, NY and Corning, NY... both also are very pretty. But I agree that Northern Tier of the state has lots of tourism potential as it is the most "untouched" region of the state overall...
Williamsport, Pennsylvania is kind of seen as the gateway city to that Northern Tier. Its small downtown area actually has made a nice comeback with some nice restaurants and cafes and shops in its downtown. That areas mall was shut down due to anchor store closures.
Therefore pleasantly enough, Williamsport's downtown anchors a Wegmans and Kohls so there actually has been a nice amount of growth. It reminds me of a bit of a slightly less polished version of Corning, NY or a smaller version of Scranton, PA... it also has tons of potential as it is only about 60 minutes from State College...
I noticed as we drove along US 6 towards the B&B we were staying at in Bethany for PhillyMag's Poconos feature (coming in the June issue) that once the freeway ended, there were mile markers along the highway that bore a logo that read "Do 6."
Turns out there is a group out there that promotes travel through the Northern Tier on one of the most scenic highways in the country:
One of the places I would love to see along the highway is the truncated Kinzua Viaduct, a railroad bridge most of which was knocked down in a severe storm some years ago. (It's near Mile 136.)
The B&B where my bf and I stayed is in Bethany, about 5 miles north of Honesdale, which is also on US 6:
The bartender at the restaurant in the Hotel Wayne informed me in no uncertain terms when I told him what I was doing there that I was not in the Poconos. "Those begin down by the lakes. You're in Northeast Pennsylvania."
I might argue that the Wyoming Valley (Wilkes-Barre and Scranton) are also a gateway to the Northern Tier, and the two cities together do make up the largest urban area in the state's northern reaches. And US 6 passes through Scranton.
(An aside: I think you will find that most states' flagship state universities are not located in their capital cities. The states whose capitals do house their flagship universities are:
Hawai’i
Nebraska
Ohio
Texas
Utah
Wisconsin
California's flagship agricultural university is in a suburb of the state capital, but the flagship campuses are in its two largest metropolitan areas. The flagship university in Minnesota is in the same metropolitan area as the state capital; the university's in Minneapolis and the capital in St. Paul. I'm not sure which State University of New York campus is considered the flagship, but my impression is it's the one in Binghamton, not Albany.)
Quote:
Pullenaway: I am actually surprised at West Virginia and would want to see the link that more people moved from PA to WV than vice versa.
As WV basically lost population and its economy overall is in decline.
One of my closest friends just moved from Louisville to Charleston, where he is now reporting for West Virginia Public Radio. I'm getting the impression that he is somewhat surprised at the general lack of wealth in the state. Charleston was once more populous than Harrisburg. No longer.
Quote:
In regards to Ohio, I can see Pennsylvanians from western Pennsylvania moving there. Especially Columbus which actually is growing at a very healthy rate and actually kind of reminds me of a larger version of the Harrisburg metro....
Your road trip from the East Coast to the Heart of America passes through Columbus on Interstate 70, which parallels the National Road (US 40) from Wheeling west to St. Louis. I can remember when that city (metro) was significantly smaller than Kansas City. The two are peers now. KC still has the greater cultural patrimony, but Columbus has done very well by itself as far as nightlife, entertainment and general attractions are concerned. I was surprised how much I enjoyed my stay there when I attended the GALA Choruses national conference in 2009.
Last edited by MarketStEl; 04-30-2021 at 07:31 AM..
The City of Harrisburg is opposed to PennDOT's plan to double the width of I-83 through the city. It argues that it would bring too many cars into the city center when the city is trying to reduce their impact.
ISTR that a similar effort to consolidate New Jersey's many municipal governments foundered as well, so that's not unique to Pennsylvania. Remember, the municipal consolidation movement began in Philadelphia in 1854 and pretty much came to an end in the Northeast around World War I. Since then, local municipalities up this way tend to guard their prerogatives pretty fiercely.
I noticed as we drove along US 6 towards the B&B we were staying at in Bethany for PhillyMag's Poconos feature (coming in the June issue) that once the freeway ended, there were mile markers along the highway that bore a logo that read "Do 6."
Turns out there is a group out there that promotes travel through the Northern Tier on one of the most scenic highways in the country:
One of the places I would love to see along the highway is the truncated Kinzua Viaduct, a railroad bridge most of which was knocked down in a severe storm some years ago. (It's near Mile 136.)
The B&B where my bf and I stayed is in Bethany, about 5 miles north of Honesdale, which is also on US 6:
The bartender at the restaurant in the Hotel Wayne informed me in no uncertain terms when I told him what I was doing there that I was not in the Poconos. "Those begin down by the lakes. You're in Northeast Pennsylvania."
I might argue that the Wyoming Valley (Wilkes-Barre and Scranton) are also a gateway to the Northern Tier, and the two cities together do make up the largest urban area in the state's northern reaches. And US 6 passes through Scranton.
(An aside: I think you will find that most states' flagship state universities are not located in their capital cities. The states whose capitals do house their flagship universities are:
Hawai’i
Nebraska
Ohio
Texas
Utah
Wisconsin
California's flagship agricultural university is in a suburb of the state capital, but the flagship campuses are in its two largest metropolitan areas. The flagship university in Minnesota is in the same metropolitan area as the state capital; the university's in Minneapolis and the capital in St. Paul. I'm not sure which State University of New York campus is considered the flagship, but my impression is it's the one in Binghamton, not Albany.)
One of my closest friends just moved from Louisville to Charleston, where he is now reporting for West Virginia Public Radio. I'm getting the impression that he is somewhat surprised at the general lack of wealth in the state. Charleston was once more populous than Harrisburg. No longer.
Your road trip from the East Coast to the Heart of America passes through Columbus on Interstate 70, which parallels the National Road (US 40) from Wheeling west to St. Louis. I can remember when that city (metro) was significantly smaller than Kansas City. The two are peers now. KC still has the greater cultural patrimony, but Columbus has done very well by itself as far as nightlife, entertainment and general attractions are concerned. I was surprised how much I enjoyed my stay there when I attended the GALA Choruses national conference in 2009.
To comment.. mostly because I know Pennsylvania very well.
The issue with 83 in Harrisburg was nothing to do with the fact that they felt the infrastructure would bring too much traffic into the city center as you stated. I am from Harrisburg. My sister went to high school in its downtown. There is no traffic problem with downtown Harrisburg. If anything there is not enough people in downtown Harrisburg because Pennsylvania and Corbett screwed over the city and privatized its parking so it is basically at a higher hourly rate than Philadelphia so the city has a very hard time attracting suburbanites to come in to enjoy its amenities. Harrisburg is still largely a ghost town, especially during the week.
The reason the 83 project received backlash was because PennDot was going to use eminent domain and cut through some neighborhoods in the cities uptown neighborhoods surrounding Paxton St. It is still in discussion to engineer that phase that cuts through Harrisburg city slightly differently to reduce the number of properties that would be acquired through ED.
There are multiple phases with the 83 project and the current Phase that is near completion is not through the city of Harrisburg but are located in Susquehanna, Lower Paxton and Lower Swatara Townships. And the project is quite impressive. I was shocked at how well executed and modern the end result is looking.
A person at a bar, I will say, I have little regard knowing where the Poconos ends and begins. If you go to the Pennsylvania Tourism website where you stayed was 100% considered the Poconos region. Honesdale is 100% considered a part of the Poconos. The bartender doesn't know what they are talking about.... Honesdale is on the official state website as a town in the Poconos region. https://www.visitpa.com/region/pocono-mountains
The Northern Tier is more of North Central Pennsylvania.... Not really Scranton. Scranton is the anchor for the Poconos and that whole area and has influence from both NYC, NJ, Lehigh Valley and Philadelphia.
The Northern Tier of Pennsylvania by definition starts west of the Poconos from Bradford to McKean County and it shares a lot of cultural influence with the southern tier of NY State and the Finger Lakes region. The state website to be trendy refers to this area as the "Pennsylvania Wilds". Prior to a recent change in marketing it has always been called the Northern Tiers of Pennsylvania
Williamsport in Lycoming County is definitely the gateway to the Northern Tier.
WV is in decline. It has been for nearly 35+ years and it is only going to get worse. It has no real industry or economic diversification.
Harper's Ferry and Morgantown are the only two parts of the state seeing some positive growth and that is due to the proximity to DC and WVU. By geographic area of the state though. Both areas are very small and have limited growth potential.
Charleston (the largest city in WV) is in economic decline.
In regards to Harrisburg... I do not think Penn State has to be located there... but I think having both Harrisburg metro and State College increase their economic development with creating more of a synergy of using PSU assets and HBG resources would really spark some impressive growth. The two areas are only about an hour and 15 mins from each other.
I have always wanted to check out that bridge. I also recommend taking a trip to the Pennsylvania Grand Canyon and the town of Wellsboro as well as a trip to Cherry Springs State Park located fairly close by.. Corning, NY and Watkins Glenn, NY also are close to the Northern Tier and worth a trip as well... if you are in that area.
And to really spark the Susquehanna Valley... I Would love to see the Hershey Foundation up their game with public works foundation projects in the Susquehanna Valley. It is crazy to know that the Hershey Foundation has a trust the same size as the University of Pennsylvania totally nearly $14 Billion dollars, but contributes almost zero public works investments back into that part of the state....
Last edited by rowhomecity; 04-30-2021 at 08:18 AM..
Yes... I agree Columbus has been pulling in people from Western PA...
There are a few isolated pockets of WV seeing some economic development. But overall WV is on a major economic decline. WV never diversified its economy and it just is all a mess there to be honest. I believe it was actually one of only two states in the USA to see a population decline over the past 10 years.
There is no doubt about it that Eastern Pennsylvania from the Susquehanna, Lehigh and Southeastern portions of the state are booming....
I guess you can say some people are retiring from Western PA to WV because it does have lower property taxes...
But in terms of jobs WV is pretty subpar... Columbus though is doing quite well. Columbus really does reminds me of a larger version of the Harrisburg metro...
Do you have a link to the In and Out migration for Pennsylvania... to verify? I just find WV odd other than for retirees who do not care about jobs... Ohio and namely Columbus though I can understand...
I don’t have links. I’d like to see the OP post them. I was just agreeing with what he said based upon growth in Columbus and the fact a friend of mine sees a lot of PA plates lately out that way. Columbus is the fastest growing city that isn’t in the south or west, meaning out of the northeast and Midwest it’s the fastest growing city snd metro. They expect the metro to be over 3 million people by 2050. Right now it is a hair over 2 million. That’s massive growth. Philly, New York, Boston or Chicago aren’t experiencing anywhere near that growth. You have to go somewhere south or west otherwise.
As far as West Virginia I don’t know. The eastern panhandle is nice. Jefferson county is a DC metro county. Charles Town is very nice. New home development there. Berkeley County is also fast growing. Then Morgantown. So I’d assume those areas are helping to make the rest of the state not look so bad with decline.
A “Friend” is anecdotal evidence and should not be taken seriously.
Very true, but the OP said there was an out migration of PA residents to OH, WV and DE.
I am just pointing out what my friend told me when we got together at the end of last year. He saw a good number of PA license plates around the Columbus area. It seems to align with what the OP stated and likely where in OH the former PA residents are choosing.
I’d like to see the link. Not sure how the OP calculated it, but they are a stats guru. It isn’t their first rodeo posting.
Very true, but the OP said there was an out migration of PA residents to OH, WV and DE.
I am just pointing out what my friend told me when we got together at the end of last year. He saw a good number of PA license plates around the Columbus area. It seems to align with what the OP stated and likely where in OH the former PA residents are choosing.
I’d like to see the link. Not sure how the OP calculated it, but they are a stats guru. It isn’t their first rodeo posting.
I always see a lot of NJ and NY plates in Pittsburgh. It could mean they are moving but many are not. (Also lots of MD , VA, and DC plates in Pittsburgh, but I've been seeing a lot of those since the 90s and always assumed they were ex-Pittsburghers visiting home since their exodus in the 80s)
A person at a bar, I will say, I have little regard knowing where the Poconos ends and begins. If you go to the Pennsylvania Tourism website where you stayed was 100% considered the Poconos region. Honesdale is 100% considered a part of the Poconos. The bartender doesn't know what they are talking about.... Honesdale is on the official state website as a town in the Poconos region. https://www.visitpa.com/region/pocono-mountains
Fine, and we at PhillyMag put it there too, but, um, that bartender lives in Honesdale. You know there are Philadelphians who will argue over neighborhood boundaries others consider settled; have you missed all my comments about how residents of Cedarbrook don't like it when you call where they live Cedarbrook? They will tell you they live in Mount Airy, and there's a big sign on Wadsworth Avenue just inside the city after crossing Cheltenham that says the same. I know the history of this and take the residents' side, but neither the City Planning Commission nor East Mount Airy Neighbors does. It's quite possible that that bartender may not be the only Honesdale resident who holds that view either. (It was clear to me from how he said it that he looked down his nose at the Poconos.)
Maybe not the Northern Tier, but Scranton and Wilkes-Barre are the principal cities of Northeast Pennsylvania, and probably most Philadelphians headed to the Northern Tier will pick up Route 6 there, too. That latter fact would make the place a "gateway" to me. This Wikipedia article puts part of the Northern Tier in Northeast Pennsylvania (which it defines pretty broadly), and Lackweanna County does border the Northern Tier.
And Lycoming County is not in the Northern Tier either; like Lackawanna and Luzerne counties, it borders it (on its southwest side, as Lackawanna County borders it on the southeast side). According to the Northern Tier Regional Planning Commission, the region consists of Bradford, Sullivan, Susquehanna, Tioga and Wyoming counties. Coming from Philadelphia, you could head west on I-80 from the Northeast Extension, take 180 to Williamsport, then head up US 15 into the Northern Tier, but you're more likely IMO to just continue up the Northeast Extension to Scranton and take US 6 west from there. Given all this, if Williamsport is a gateway to the Northern Tier, then so is Scranton.
Last edited by MarketStEl; 04-30-2021 at 10:29 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
.
