13,002,700

[rowhomecity]

Just to put some things into perspective....

Scranton is very much socially aligned with Philadelphia and NYC in most regards in history and its development. I have family in Scranton. Heck most natives even have a bit of a Philly meets Minnesota accent. It is very phillyesque. I just saw my Scranton family this month to let you know how deep my roots are across the state.

Scranton is not really connected with those Northern Tier Counties.... Scranton had train service to NYC and Philadelphia. Not to those Tier Counties to the west... Where Williamsport was the main transit and train destination for all that lumber production to its north...







Williamsport was and still is an anchor city to those northern tier of Pennsylvania counties in regards to industry and trade historically and still today....

Historically the northern tier was a major center for lumber and leather production and most of the small towns in that area had mills that produced either and were significant.

Williamsport was a major part of that industry and therefore it was the anchor for the tier.

Yes Lycoming County is just south of those Northern Counties... but it is less than a 30 minute drive from Williamsport to Tioga County.....

Whereas Scranton is over 2.5 hours away.


Now back in the 50s... you had lots of people traveling Route 6 from NYC and places like Wellsboro were a popular stop on the way. Audrey Hepburn even stayed their at the towns historic Penns Well Hotel which is still in operation today and on the national historic register.

But from Philadelphia no one takes the Northeast Extension to Route 6.... they go 476 to 80 to 15. Or continue further along 80 west depending how far west they are looking before traveling north.

I have family in Tioga County... I know the references and many people from Philadelphia have second country homes up there and no one goes 6 the entire length, even though it has been designated a historic route.... It takes approximately two hours longer to go rt 6 rather than rt 15..


Williamsport has way more influence on the northern tier than Scranton. People go to and work in Williamsport from those hyper rural tier counties because most people live within 60 miles or less from Williamsport.... and many communities are only about 40 minutes away..

Williamsport is one of the main cities where people in these hyper rural communities go to for weekly shopping, medical services, events, etc...



The center of population in the northern tier is over 150 miles from scranton or about 2hrs and 45 minutes...

With that, yes Scranton anchors the Poconos region and Northeast Pennsylvania in general...

But if you would talk to say people in Tioga County I think you would here them all say no way is Scranton an anchor. Most have never even been there in their lives.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by rowhomecity

With that, yes Scranton anchors the Poconos region and Northeast Pennsylvania in general...

But if you would talk to say people in Tioga County I think you would here them all say no way is Scranton an anchor. Most have never even been there in their lives.

Maybe I'm quibbling over the terms "anchor" and "gateway," but I don't consider them the same.

St. Louis calls itself the "Gateway to the West" in large part thanks to that Eero Saarinen croquet wicket on the Mississippi's west bank, but in the days of the Conestoga wagon trains, the outfitting point, the place where the trails started, was Independence, which I would consider the "anchor" of the trails (as do Independence residents themselves, who hold an annual festival called Santa-Cali-Gon Days each year).

And St. Louis' claim to the title is not totally unjustified, for once you cross the Mississippi, you are generally considered to be in the country's western half, even though you have about 350 miles further to go before you reach the geographic midpoint of the 48 states just outside Fort Riley, Kan.

(Culturally speaking, however, IMO, St. Louis looks eastward while Kansas City looks westward.)

Similarly, while Scranton/Wilkes-Barre is the anchor city of Northeast Pennsylvania, I'd say that for the Poconos themselves, that honor belongs to Stroudsburg/East Stroudsburg. Many Philadelphians might even reach the Poconos via I-78 or US 22 to PA 33 to save tolls. (78 hadn't been finished when we came back from Rainbow Mountain Resort in 1990, so we followed 33 to 22 to the Northeast Extension.)

[bluecarebear]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Sure didn't look like one to me when bf and I visited it about two months ago.

Now, we only saw neighborhoods located between the rivers, so maybe there's worse north of the Allegheny or south of the Monongahela (though I also don't recall the parts of the city through which the T light rail runs looking all that dumpy when I rode it on a visit about 15 years ago), but the parts of the city we saw, especially the Strip District, Squirrel Hill and Point Breeze*, looked real nice, and the university district in Oakland looked far more urban (and urbane) to me than its Philadelphia analogues in University City and around Temple.

So where's the dump?

*Pittsburgh's Point Breeze neighborhood looks nothing at all like the Philadelphia neighborhood of the same name; rather, it looks like a slightly denser version of Chestnut Hill. I also like the city practice of putting neighborhood names as well as the house numbering coordinates on the street signs.

Visiting the tourist spots during a partial shutdown is not the same as living here 24/7. The violent homeless will return to Oakland once the city gets back to normal.

[Charley Barker]

Originally Posted by bluecarebear

Visiting the tourist spots during a partial shutdown is not the same as living here 24/7. The violent homeless will return to Oakland once the city gets back to normal.

My wife worked in Oakland every day, pre-pandemic. She never reported any issues, although I am sure they are there. We visited on evenings and weekends for concerts and lectures and didn't have any problems. I checked the crime maps and it doesn't seem to be so bad. Where is it like this specifically? I'd like to let her know what streets to avoid when she goes back.

[Independentthinking83]

Originally Posted by rowhomecity

Just to put some things into perspective....

Scranton is very much socially aligned with Philadelphia and NYC in most regards in history and its development. I have family in Scranton. Heck most natives even have a bit of a Philly meets Minnesota accent. It is very phillyesque. I just saw my Scranton family this month to let you know how deep my roots are across the state.

Scranton is not really connected with those Northern Tier Counties.... Scranton had train service to NYC and Philadelphia. Not to those Tier Counties to the west... Where Williamsport was the main transit and train destination for all that lumber production to its north...







Williamsport was and still is an anchor city to those northern tier of Pennsylvania counties in regards to industry and trade historically and still today....

Historically the northern tier was a major center for lumber and leather production and most of the small towns in that area had mills that produced either and were significant.

Williamsport was a major part of that industry and therefore it was the anchor for the tier.

Yes Lycoming County is just south of those Northern Counties... but it is less than a 30 minute drive from Williamsport to Tioga County.....

Whereas Scranton is over 2.5 hours away.


Now back in the 50s... you had lots of people traveling Route 6 from NYC and places like Wellsboro were a popular stop on the way. Audrey Hepburn even stayed their at the towns historic Penns Well Hotel which is still in operation today and on the national historic register.

But from Philadelphia no one takes the Northeast Extension to Route 6.... they go 476 to 80 to 15. Or continue further along 80 west depending how far west they are looking before traveling north.

I have family in Tioga County... I know the references and many people from Philadelphia have second country homes up there and no one goes 6 the entire length, even though it has been designated a historic route.... It takes approximately two hours longer to go rt 6 rather than rt 15..


Williamsport has way more influence on the northern tier than Scranton. People go to and work in Williamsport from those hyper rural tier counties because most people live within 60 miles or less from Williamsport.... and many communities are only about 40 minutes away..

Williamsport is one of the main cities where people in these hyper rural communities go to for weekly shopping, medical services, events, etc...



The center of population in the northern tier is over 150 miles from scranton or about 2hrs and 45 minutes...

With that, yes Scranton anchors the Poconos region and Northeast Pennsylvania in general...

But if you would talk to say people in Tioga County I think you would here them all say no way is Scranton an anchor. Most have never even been there in their lives.

Growth in PA must all be central and East. Pittsburgh MSA lost approximately 9,000 residents between 2019 and 2020. It was number 10 on the fastest shrinking metro list.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...ounty.amp.html

[runpens1]

Originally Posted by Independentthinking83

Growth in PA must all be central and East. Pittsburgh MSA lost approximately 9,000 residents between 2019 and 2020. It was number 10 on the fastest shrinking metro list.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...ounty.amp.html

Well it seems like every county that grew other than Butler is in the south central to east portion of the state.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by runpens1

Well it seems like every county that grew other than Butler is in the south central to east portion of the state.

As I said in the Pittsburgh forum, these are based upon the ACS data, not the 2020 Census data. We know the 2020 census data found an additional 219,000 Pennsylvanians the ACS didn't expect. As of yet we don't know where they are however. IMHO it's plausible that enough of them will be in the western part of the state that Allegheny County might break even this decade.

[rowhomecity]

Originally Posted by eschaton

As I said in the Pittsburgh forum, these are based upon the ACS data, not the 2020 Census data. We know the 2020 census data found an additional 219,000 Pennsylvanians the ACS didn't expect. As of yet we don't know where they are however. IMHO it's plausible that enough of them will be in the western part of the state that Allegheny County might break even this decade.

Yea I am really hoping for that turn around for Pittsburgh and ALGHY CNTY. I think it is only a matter of time.. as cities like Denver and Austin become crazy expensive.

And other places like Portland are becoming the same.

Pittsburgh has all the bones to be the next "off the radar new tech city".... especially since it has such a low col.