Lancaster - yes or no? (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: homes, job market, neighborhoods)

[dukewm]

Hello d_c :

If you are looking for a nice home in a very good school district, you have hit the jackpot today 7/6/07 (a day early unless you read this tomorrow - which of course is 7/7/07).

I have a home listed in Strasburg, Pa., a very quaint historic boro just 7 miles from Lancaster City, yet convenient to US 30 and all amenities.
The Lampeter-Strasburg School District is rated number 3 in Lancaster County. You can check out the Listing and Photo Gallery at For Sale By Owner (FSBO), Sell home house condo Buy Real Estate MLS. Strasburg is about as close to "crime-free" as you can find anywhere. The next door neighbor is a Lancaster City Police Officer with 3 young girls ranging from about 5 yrs to newborn and other neighbors are very friendly.

If you have any questions or further interest, please reply with your email address and I can reply/attach the Listing Flyer and "A Brief History" which tells the story of this property back to 1874. (This Forum would not allow attachment of the 2 mentioned "files" due to limits on size capability)

Originally Posted by dazed_confused

Help, please! We recently came home (to Long Island, NY) after a trip to Lancaster and are considering a move there. We are looking for a place within 3-4 hours drive of NY to visit family who remain here. We have 2 kids (age 8 and 6), so schools are important; are looking for a suburban setting (neither too city, nor too rural) We liked the School Lane Hills area - should be able to afford to trade up to a home in the lower end of price range there and still have a manageable mortgage payment.

But now upon further research (including reading postings on this forum), some questions are arising. According to one school-rating website, the public schools in the School Lane Hills area look questionable and I'm concerned that kids might be too "insulated" in private school. Ideally would like them in a public school, exposed to diverse population, but not sacrificing safety or educational standards.

Also, some posters bring up crime rate as a source of concern in Lancaster, as well as a "we hate outsiders" mentality being encountered.

So, can anyone out there shed any light on schools, crime, feeling welcome (or not) in School Lane Hills or elsewhere in the Lancaster area? Or can anyone maybe alternatives that might fit the bill elsewhere in PA?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

[dukewm]

Hello again,

(should have mentioned yesterday) - if you're still "in the hunt" and need more info, there's a link at the bottom of the webpage OR just email me direct at: rturner@thecastlegate.com

have a lucky day

[Oldiebutgoodie26]

I have "heard" the KKK are here, too. I have yet to see evidence of a Klan meeting, though. No, Lancaster County does not have the racial diversity that NYC has, but what did you expect? The surrounding farmlands were settled by white Germans hundreds of years ago. Many of their ancestors still call this home. It has a lot more than people think. The local school districts have kids from Russia, Puerto Rico, Asia, Eastern Europe, Latin America, and North Africa. That's not diverse enough for you? And Lancaster city is innundated with immigrants from Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, Cuba.....and NYC, lol. Go to the Park City Mall on a Saturday, and you will see ALL kinds of people. I never understood all this "I need to see diverse people" stuff, anyway. That makes you a better person, seeing people of different races? I tell people all the time about Lancaster City being a very mixed bag of people- they do not believe me. I think it's b/c the nonwhite people who are there are the poor people, with whom some people would not associate. I'm not calling you out on this, NYC girl. I'm just saying I have spoken to people around here, and they say "I want my children to be around a "diverse" population." Well, the city has one, in spades, but noooooo way do they want their little ones exposed to the plight of the urban poor. "It was diverse (white, Jewish, AA, Asian) on Long Island, though!", they say. However, they fail to mention that their neighbors were also near-millionaires. Not the case, here.

I worked with hs kids from Manheim Township (and subbed there, too) and Hempfield SD (I work with families of these kids now). Those of you looking for the perfect wealthy suburb for your upwardly moblie kids need to know that (like EVERYWHERE) there are drug issues at those schools. You folks new to the area will not hear about it, but, believe me, I've heard it right from the horse's mouths (the kids). It's there.

And, the Penn Manor SD (and most others) will NOT hire experienced teachers. It is cheaper to get some 21 year old new grad with 0 experience than to hire someone like me who has been teaching for many years. Sorry- they simply will not do that. Wish it were different, but, what can you do?

Trust me, I am no Lancaster cheerleader. This is the strangest place in which I have lived. However, it does have a lot of nice things for people to do and see. It is a "good" place to bring up a family. Like anywhere else, though, you need to stay on top of your kids, keep them in check. Just like anywhere. I think folks look at Lancaster, and say, "WOW- it has Amish people who still farm the land, and roadside stands that sell fresh veggies, and it looks so 1800s, and peaceful and lovely- like paradise!" It is an American community in the 21st century, with problems like everywhere else. I have met people who want this to be like what they saw in "Witness" - and trust me, the local PR people have hyped this area up to seem like it is Utopia- and when they get here- gosh, it's like everywhere else. And anyone from Long Island who is expecting a little Nassau County is in for culture shock. When you leave the Big Apple area- you leave a LOT behind. Lancaster County is NOT Long Island! Not better or worse, just very different.

Originally Posted by NYC Girl 67

I am also from Long Island and moved here after 9/11. The people are just cold, its weird really, once they hear your accent they become put off. It takes alot to adjust here. I can tell you to stay FAR away from the Penn Manor school districts. REDNECK CENTRAL. There is no racial diversity here in most of Lancaster county. As a matter of fact the KKK is here. Most of the cold people you meet, who are nice to your face wear sheets on the weekend.

The staff at the Penn Manor school district are way to young and have a chip on their shoulders. I mean really to be brought in to a meeting because my 17 yr old son was staring at his 22 yr old teacher as she bent down with her thong hanging out! I mean really. We have kids teaching kids. Don't look for the Admistration to help, they just sit there and watch you explain and don't comment. Useless.

If I did not have kids I would say you could come and adjust. The Hempfield school district would be the only one I would recommend. And they have a drug problem. Good luck

[LancasterCountyLocal]

Okay, so I have never been on this thing til now, but I typed in Lancaster County and came across these message "boreds". After hearing all these people saying negative stuff about Lancaster, I knew I had to stick up for my people. So here is the reliable yet biased opinion on the outsiders negative comments.

Is Lancaster County a good place to live?

Yes, it's a wholesome county with friendly people and a laidback place to grow up. It can be boring if you are coming from a high paced area like NY or Philly. It's very Christian and conservative. The city is very poor and uneducated unfortunately. The education system is very good, but like anywhere could always improve, especially in the city. Property is hot here. Good luck finding a home in Millersville. It's expensive and hard to get. My friend moved to York though and with housing development you can find a place easy.

Is Lancaster diverse?

Most of Lancaster County is Pennsylvania German. Some are Amish, some are Mennonite, and some are me (an average American). The city is predominantly Latino. There are some African Americans as well. As far as racist (what people really want to know when they ask about diversity), Lancastrians are not racist for the most part. We are very ignorant and sometimes prejudice to other cultures though, so don't expect to have a conversation on Chilean wine or chapatis (Yeah, google that one). One thing that always confused me growing up was the popularity of the Rebel flag with the hicks. The KKK doesn't live here so don't worry about anything like that. There's a difference between being racist and just not having any concept of other cultures. We're friendly to everyone, but we just don't know what the difference is between a Mexican and a Puerto Rican.

Are Lancastrians unwelcoming to outsiders? (The Big Question)

Generally no. We aren't going to send you to the back of the bus if we find out your not from the area. We have a very distinct culture that makes it obvious who is an "outsider" (a term no Lancastrian has ever used). What we hate are New Yorkers and Jersey folk who come in just to see the leaves change and snap pictures of the Amish and then leave, yet have no concept or respect for our real local culture. To all you New Yorkers out there, how stupid are those tourists who come to New York snapping pictures and actually wearing an "I Heart New York" shirt? You know what I'm talkin' about. Also, please pronounce Lancaster as "Lank-ister". I don't know why we care, but we really care!

When you're a conservative white Christian from the country you are automatically branded backwards and racist. We're not going to apologize for being traditional, for going to church, for being German, or for being from an area that feeds America! The issue is that our farmlands are continously being turned into ugly developments or business districts. It's so sad as a local to say "That used to be a farm". Not to mention that so much crime is coming from people who moved to Lancaster City from Brooklyn or Philly. Sorry, but it's true.

As far as being unfriendly or as one doplic person termed us "white-washed sepulchres" (What an pretentious term to use!). It's not that we don't like outsiders, but we have our own culture that affects so much of our daily life. We eat pork and sauerkraut. We go to church. We buy food from the markets. We do not care that an Amish buggy just drove by. It's that mentality that as an "outsider" you won't understand. It's something that takes you to develop. Be who you are, because we are who we are and that ain't gonna change. Lancaster is not "Witness" and "Deliverance" rolled into one. The comments about us being nosey are beyond me. What I will admit to is that neighbors are not usually friends to us. I say that even though my best friends live across the street, my next door neighbor plows our snow, and my aunt lives a few houses down. There's a Lancaster community, but that doesn't mean my actual street hangs out with each other.

Who am I?

I'm a native from Lancaster. I am Pennsylvania German and proud of it. I was raised in Millersville, a college town outside the city. You probably are thinking that I'm some unfriendly redneck who couldn't locate Philly on a map, but the truth is that I'm a college graduate who went to Art school in Center City, Philadelphia. My best friends are Puerto Rican. My hobbies include international travel (21 countries total. Kenya, India, Greece, Costa Rica, Spain, Tanzania just to name a few). I'm currently packing my bags to teach English in Chile for four months. Yet somehow, I can be educated, multicultural, and worldly yet all the while I drive my truck to Green Dragon "chust" so I can get a Raub's sub from the Mennonite ladies and a pumpkin whoopie pie from the Amish while praising the Good Lord that I'm from Lancaster County!

Come to Lancaster County. We Will Wilkum You!

[PASeahawk]

I'm a native of Washington State who's lived in Utah, Texas, West Virginia and now southern York County, just across the Susquehanna from Lancaster County.

If you want cold neighbors, try Spokane, Washington. All this stuff about Penn Dutch being Teutonically cold is well and good, but I've never seen any town that just wants to be left alone like Spokane. And it's got nice folks and beautiful neighborhoods and well-kept lawns. I'm from there and have seen the less than welcoming attitude myself. But they are my people, and I understand that behind that somewhat cold exterior beat hearts just as human, with just as wide a range of emotion and experience, as any other people anywhere. Just love them, and they will love you back.

Utah? We were welcomed with open arms in both little towns where we lived. Price, Utah has somewhere around 9000 residents or so, and they are almost all Mormons. And they were as kind and open as just about any community I've ever experienced. Respectful of my beliefs, willing to include me and my family in community activities even though so much of the social activity of the community takes place through the church. I gotta say, even though their religion can get weird, the people of Price won us over with their general loving attitude toward each other and willingness to make us full members of their community.

Fort Worth area, TX: is "open arms" an adequate descriptor for the folks in Texas? That place is u-g-l-y, and yet it was one of the most rewarding communities I've lived in. I've not found nicer, more extroverted and fun people as neighbors, anywhere. Despite the lack of scenery and the 5 months per year of humid hell, I would return to the Ft. Worth area happily because of the people there. If you can choose your location, consider Austin or San Antonio, or even Dallas/Ft. Worth. It's the people who are the main attraction.

West Virginia was a mixed bag, but mostly because Charleston is such a dump. The homes are better than the ones in inner York, PA, but the industrial base of Charleston in the 20th century was the chemical industry--and it is now all gone, leaving the shores of the Kanawah River littered with rusting, polluted abandoned chemical plants. But we noticed the people of West Virginia cared very deeply about each other--I saw a fiercer sense of pride of place there than any other place I've been. West Virginians will pass up a good job opportunity elsewhere and work at Wal-Mart if they have to just to stay home with their people. The level of care for each other is actually quite touching--and we were welcomed there as well. We travel back to West Virginia periodically to visit the close friends we left behind when we came to Pennsylvania.

Which brings me to Central PA. I live in Shrewsbury, the last town along the I-83 corridor before the Maryland line. The folks here have been absorbing a massive migration from Baltimore, about 30 miles to the south. It has sent housing prices far beyond what locals can afford to pay, and it is a real point of resentment. I'm sure if I were a lifetime resident of south central PA I'd be quite happy about the increase in my net worth caused by the increase in my home's value. But I'd be dismayed that my kids are having such a hard time buying a house because the prices are completely out of balance with the local economy.

I've found it a joy to learn about the Penn Dutch culture. I'm sort of an amateur anthropologist, which may have been why Utah was so much fun for me with its unique Mormon culture. But this is even better. The folks of central PA are a puzzle to be worked out. The pieces are all there, and I brought in my own set of understandings which apply with varying degrees of success with the mix of people here. We've got Mennonites, Amish, and Brethren communities here, a large Amish market, and a majority of the locals who, if not Plain Dress Anabaptists themselves, are descendants of one or the other branches.

Embrace of change and innovation comes slowly here. When you arrive in central PA, your life slows down, much like it does in West Virginia. Utah's larger cities are some fast-paced places, like the larger cities in the rest of the country. But the Lancaster/York/Harrisburg triangle is just wonderful for a small town boy like me. It's like you've been skimming the surface in your boat with the throttle wide open--and then cut it back to one-quarter throttle. The frantic pace slows, your life settles into the cultural waters around you and you move through it slowly, relaxed. It's absolutely what is meant by "leaving the rat race."

I've been here for a year, and we have found the beginnings of fast friendships. It's true that about half of the families we get along best with seem to be Marylanders who, like us, are searching for roots in their new home. But the other half are born and raised Penn Dutch, German names and all. I don't notice any greater or lesser inclination among these folks toward getting to know me than I find in my native Spokane. Since I'm quite used to the social dance of an insular community, I feel quite at home here.

Honestly, if the questioner is from New York (my mother is from Belle Rose, Queens) I'd say that Long Islanders are as close-minded as are Penn Dutch. I would simply advise you to lose your parochial New Yorkerness and embrace the culture you're in rather than finding fault with it because it ain't New York. Same advice I'd give a Penn Dutch family moving to Oyster Bay.

The amount of bad-mouthing going on here, especially the references to the KKK, is really revealing of just how parochial many New Yorkers can be. When was the last time a race riot broke out in Lancaster, with nonwhite-owned businesses burned to the ground, their owners shot? Crown Heights isn't in Lancaster, New Yorkers. Your racism problem is very bad in New York. Philadelphia has it bad too. The virulent racial problems experienced in Central PA 40 years ago were mirrored across the country. There was a time when no black man who valued his life would set foot in Hanover, while it was safe to come to New York as long as he stayed in "his neighborhoods."

News flash: not only have attitudes relaxed in New York, friends. Even notorious hotbeds of Yankee racism like Hanover have loosened their collars--and the lynchers of the sixties are on Geritol now. My kid (whose mother is full-blooded Tlingit, Alaska Native) is fully embraced by both teachers and classmates. Her mother is a director at Central PA's largest hospital. We have encountered--in Utah, Texas, West Virginia and Pennsylvania--exactly zero anti-Indian racism. Things have really changed, and for the better.

City folks: just because the way small-town folks relate is different than the way you relate who grew up elbow to elbow, does NOT make them less friendly than you. It only means the need to socialize dictated by their circumstances is different than that of the people you grew up with. Meaning they have the same hearts, the same warmth, the same ability to love and hate, to help or to ignore, that you do. That you would denigrate them because their circumstances and unique culture leads them to reach out to each other (and to you) in ways that you don't understand, only shows your ignorance and unwillingness to learn the ways of the folks you now live among. You are uppity and snobbish and insulting, assuming your ways are "better."

And you expect the folks around you to validate these idiotic beliefs of yours? I wouldn't want to be around you either. How do you feel when somebody shows up in your neighborhood and tells you what a bunch of jerks you all are? You feel like socializing with that person? Feel like welcoming that person into your community?

I don't care where you go in this country. If your chief complaint is that the people are unfriendly to you, perhaps you might examine your own attitudes toward them to find out why they don't respect you.

[Marodi]

Originally Posted by PASeahawk

Which brings me to Central PA. I live in Shrewsbury, the last town along the I-83 corridor before the Maryland line. The folks here have been absorbing a massive migration from Baltimore, about 30 miles to the south. It has sent housing prices far beyond what locals can afford to pay, and it is a real point of resentment. I'm sure if I were a lifetime resident of south central PA I'd be quite happy about the increase in my net worth caused by the increase in my home's value. But I'd be dismayed that my kids are having such a hard time buying a house because the prices are completely out of balance with the local economy.

I've found it a joy to learn about the Penn Dutch culture. I'm sort of an amateur anthropologist, which may have been why Utah was so much fun for me with its unique Mormon culture. But this is even better. The folks of central PA are a puzzle to be worked out. The pieces are all there, and I brought in my own set of understandings which apply with varying degrees of success with the mix of people here. We've got Mennonites, Amish, and Brethren communities here, a large Amish market, and a majority of the locals who, if not Plain Dress Anabaptists themselves, are descendants of one or the other branches.

Embrace of change and innovation comes slowly here. When you arrive in central PA, your life slows down, much like it does in West Virginia. Utah's larger cities are some fast-paced places, like the larger cities in the rest of the country. But the Lancaster/York/Harrisburg triangle is just wonderful for a small town boy like me. It's like you've been skimming the surface in your boat with the throttle wide open--and then cut it back to one-quarter throttle. The frantic pace slows, your life settles into the cultural waters around you and you move through it slowly, relaxed. It's absolutely what is meant by "leaving the rat race."

I've been here for a year, and we have found the beginnings of fast friendships. It's true that about half of the families we get along best with seem to be Marylanders who, like us, are searching for roots in their new home. But the other half are born and raised Penn Dutch, German names and all. I don't notice any greater or lesser inclination among these folks toward getting to know me than I find in my native Spokane. Since I'm quite used to the social dance of an insular community, I feel quite at home here.

Honestly, if the questioner is from New York (my mother is from Belle Rose, Queens) I'd say that Long Islanders are as close-minded as are Penn Dutch. I would simply advise you to lose your parochial New Yorkerness and embrace the culture you're in rather than finding fault with it because it ain't New York. Same advice I'd give a Penn Dutch family moving to Oyster Bay.

The amount of bad-mouthing going on here, especially the references to the KKK, is really revealing of just how parochial many New Yorkers can be. When was the last time a race riot broke out in Lancaster, with nonwhite-owned businesses burned to the ground, their owners shot? Crown Heights isn't in Lancaster, New Yorkers. Your racism problem is very bad in New York. Philadelphia has it bad too. The virulent racial problems experienced in Central PA 40 years ago were mirrored across the country. There was a time when no black man who valued his life would set foot in Hanover, while it was safe to come to New York as long as he stayed in "his neighborhoods."

News flash: not only have attitudes relaxed in New York, friends. Even notorious hotbeds of Yankee racism like Hanover have loosened their collars--and the lynchers of the sixties are on Geritol now. My kid (whose mother is full-blooded Tlingit, Alaska Native) is fully embraced by both teachers and classmates. Her mother is a director at Central PA's largest hospital. We have encountered--in Utah, Texas, West Virginia and Pennsylvania--exactly zero anti-Indian racism. Things have really changed, and for the better.

City folks: just because the way small-town folks relate is different than the way you relate who grew up elbow to elbow, does NOT make them less friendly than you. It only means the need to socialize dictated by their circumstances is different than that of the people you grew up with. Meaning they have the same hearts, the same warmth, the same ability to love and hate, to help or to ignore, that you do. That you would denigrate them because their circumstances and unique culture leads them to reach out to each other (and to you) in ways that you don't understand, only shows your ignorance and unwillingness to learn the ways of the folks you now live among. You are uppity and snobbish and insulting, assuming your ways are "better."

And you expect the folks around you to validate these idiotic beliefs of yours? I wouldn't want to be around you either. How do you feel when somebody shows up in your neighborhood and tells you what a bunch of jerks you all are? You feel like socializing with that person? Feel like welcoming that person into your community?

I don't care where you go in this country. If your chief complaint is that the people are unfriendly to you, perhaps you might examine your own attitudes toward them to find out why they don't respect you.

Well, I was born and raised in Gettysburg. South central, PA is the fastest growing region in the whole Northeast and there is a lot of resentment because farm after 100+ acre farm is taken for development. Usually tacky cookie cutter houses and grass berms ruining any sort of view from the road making driving a bore.

Hanover and east is known as Pennsyltucky or Pennsylbama and has one of the largest concentrations of neo-nazi's north of the Mason-Dixon. In 1993 there was a "race riot" although not large enough to get national attention, blacks that lived in the area at that time moved out and I know a few that refuse to move back there.

[PASeahawk]

And I know blacks who refuse to set foot in Adams County, yet find living in York County quite welcoming. Of course, the waters I swim in are upper middle-class, and those are the black folks I meet as well. They generally are married, have good jobs, keep their grass mowed and their patch weeded, houses mended and cars in the garage. In other words, they try to keep a neat home.

I'm not friends with many--black, white, latino--who don't fit that group. I visit some folks from my church who are quite poor. But even living in neighborhoods that are pretty nasty, these folks try to keep their corner neat and clean. They are living a lifestyle with habits that will carry them to better times in the future.

Generally, if your home is a shambles, the rest of your life is probably fairly disorganized. That disorganization comes from habits which do not lead to improvement in one's life. I'm pretty sure that today's 'racism' stems from a stereotype of blacks and other minorities as disorganized ne'er-do-wells who depend for their subsistence upon handouts from those with enough initiative to make something out of their lives.

I'm here to tell you that most of the world isn't like that. Most folks, even here in South Central PA, reserve our disdain for dissolute BEHAVIOR rather than for physical characteristics of race or sex.

Nobody has time to get to know each individual to find out the content of his/her character, so our snap judgements are often made on cues conveyed by outward appearance. Does the person in question smell bad on a regular basis? Do his/her clothes fit properly--pants pulled up over underpants, etc.? Tattoos? Piercings? Telltale signs of alcohol/tobacco/drugs? Does he/she drive a beater indicating chronic financial stress?

Now, none of these signs will give you an accurate reading of an individual's character. They are only clues that by themselves indicate only increased or decreased probability of certain habits and disciplines. And they may be wrong in certain cases, but each of us uses them because we've been taught to judge not by skin color but by character--and who really is qualified to judge the character of somebody he doesn't know? Yet we must make such judgements on a daily basis.

It's no sin to misjudge someone--we've all been misjudged by folks who didn't know us. The beef blacks especially have with whites is that we tend to misjudge them constantly based on racial identiy, a noncontrollable factor. We whites counter that they misjudge us too. I'd say that the worst racist will still come around, even to a member of a race he/she generally despises, once he gets to know that person's character. How many racists have you known who say, "Some of my best friends are _____(insert racial classification here)?" Honestly, my granddad couldn't stand Jews. He wouldn't wait to get to know you if you were Jewish, he'd just write you off then and there. Had no use for blacks either, and used the N-word freely as did his brother. They are both dead. And both counted amongst their friends people whose ethnic groups they disdained. They made allowances for their friends, who "weren't like the rest of them."

I'm afraid what happened 14 years ago in the Hanover area is just not relevant to today. We've got another generation coming up, and they are not being stewed in the ignorant racism of their parents and grandparents. Each generation now puts more of that animosity behind it. It's astounding now to hear of things that were routine only 30 or so years ago.

I have a mixed-race family--something that used to be very frowned upon, especially in lily-white enclaves like this. Nobody now, even in my mostly-white church congregation, has flinched at embracing my family--and I think that they like her way better than they like me. With good reason I guess, since I tend to have a mean streak and she's as nice as they come.

Don't lose hope for your home town.

[Positiveone]

For those who are not originally from Lancaster how is the current job market in Lancaster county compared to where you used to live?

[nygal]

Don't Even Think Of Moving To Lancaster, Pa. I'm Originally From Long Island, And These Freak'n People Are Phonies!!! There's No Christianity Here, But Hypocrites Pretending To Be Soooooo Religious. They "hate" Anyone Except Themselves. This Is The Most Unfriendliest, Coldest Place I Have Ever Experienced. They've Got "no" Brains For Brains - They Don't Even Have A Clue Of What Day It Is! They Hate "us" (new Yorkers) Because They Are Intimidated By Us - Too Bad Morons. Wake Up, It's 2007! I Could Write A Book About This Place And The "horrors" I've Discovered, Or Maybe I Should Just Go On The Today Show And Really Tell It Like It Is. Whatever You Do, "do Not Move To Lancaster, Pa" - You'll Be Ever So, So Sorry For The Rest Of Your Life. I'm Looking To Return "asap"! I Also Hear The "cancer" Rate Is Extremely High Here- No Wonder, They Use Chemicals In Their Manure, Etc. Someone Once Told Me That This Place (lancaster) Is Like The Abyss, And A Time-warp- Well Said! Stay On Long Island - We Are The Best! Warm, Friendly, "hip" To Everything, Literate, Stimulating, Full Of Life And Passion, Honest, Etc. There's Nothing Like New York!

[nygal]

OH, YOU'RE OH SO CORRECT. THIS PLACE IS A DISGRACE! I'M SO PROUD TO BE A NEW YORKER! These people should be ashamed of themselves for touting their religion - it's all man-made religion so "they" can live and preach the way they want to. No one is happy here, they're all depressed and walk around like freak'n ZOMBIES! There's no one home upstairs!