Eastern PA, Western PA--What's the Difference? (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: home, live in, rated)

[ainulinale]

Originally Posted by CHIP72

western PA is much more union-oriented (as in worker union-oriented) than south central PA (which actually may be related to Point A). What I mean by the former comment is that when I lived in western PA (in Indiana when I went to grad school at IUP), I got a strong sense many of the people who lived there, or the culture itself, was small-minded or myopic.

Yes, great point.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...ient=firefox-a

Apparently, PA is 4th in union membership...I'm sure they're all concentrated in Western PA though. BTW, if you look at the bottom of the article, other top union states include New York and New Jersey.

[CHIP72]

Okay, so on one hand you post a whole bunch of pictures of Pittsburgh saying it's an eastern city - when I can tell you places like Washington or even Richmond (in the latter case based on a day trip I took there a couple months ago) that you consider the South, at least historically, have architecture that isn't dramatically different than the cities along the I-95 further north. I can't say the following with 100% confidence, I'd have to visit these places again, but I suspect places in western NY state and eastern OH also have fairly similar architectural patterns to western PA (and by extension, East Coast cities). Then on the other hand you say the historic demographics of Pittsburgh are similar to cities in eastern PA - when Pittsburgh's historic demographics are even more similar to places like Cleveland and Buffalo, something I've said before on the city-data.com forums (or to be more accurate I said Pittsburgh, like Cleveland and Buffalo, was in an area that is in a transition zone between the East and Midwest).

Please note I didn't say in my first post in this thread that south central PA (which IS where Harrisburg, Lancaster, and York are located - people who live in those places call it either "south central PA" or "the mid-state" - actually only the TV stations call it the latter) doesn't have any similarities to western PA/Pittsburgh area - I said south central PA has some similarities to western PA but also has similarities to eastern PA and northern MD (particularly the latter), similarities that I believe are stronger than those with western PA. Incidentally, there are also some distinct differences between south central PA and eastern PA (maybe not Reading so much, but definitely moreso with the Lehigh Valley cities and Philadelphia, and also Scranton/Wilkes-Barre for different reasons).

I do agree I'm no authority on all things Pittsburgh (nor do I want to be), but I do have some sense of what western PA is like - I lived there. I also lived in eastern PA, south central PA, and what I call "true" central PA (in Huntingdon, PA) because it is near the geographic center of the state and was a true rural area, which is what central PA west of the first ridge of Appalachian Mountains really is for the most part. Western PA, IMHO, is not particularly similar to eastern PA. It definitely has a few similarities, but it also has many differences. Also, from the admittedly fairly limited amount of time I've spent in Ohio, particularly the northeastern part, I think western PA is definitely more similar to eastern OH than it is to eastern PA. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to tell you that I think you are incorrect, based on my experience, especially that from living in both eastern PA and western PA.

[CHIP72]

Originally Posted by ainulinale

I don't care what you think of Pittsburgh or Western PA...your opinion is meaningless to me.

Clearly that's not the case, otherwise you wouldn't be getting so upset with what I'm saying; you'd ignore it instead.

[ainulinale]

Originally Posted by CHIP72

Clearly that's not the case, otherwise you wouldn't be getting so upset with what I'm saying; you'd ignore it instead.

Not really. I don't ignore it because I don't want the ignorance to spread. Other people read these posts you know.

[ainulinale]

Originally Posted by CHIP72

I can't say the following with 100% confidence, I'd have to visit these places again, but I suspect places in western NY state and eastern OH also have fairly similar architectural patterns to western PA (and by extension, East Coast cities).

Well your suspicions are largely wrong. Eastern Ohio is completely different architecturally, as is Western New York to Pittsburgh (though I don't exclude western ny from the Northeast as exclusivists like you do with Pittsburgh). The Buffalo and Cleveland areas are undoubtedly Great Lakes styled, while Pittsburgh bears the rowhouse tradition of the East Coast and fits in some healthy Appalachian flare.

Originally Posted by CHIP72

Then on the other hand you say the historic demographics of Pittsburgh are similar to cities in eastern PA - when Pittsburgh's historic demographics are even more similar to places like Cleveland and Buffalo, something I've said before on the city-data.com forums

I disagree. The Pittsburgh area has an enormous Italian population--something that dwindles once you get to Buffalo and Cleveland, and IMO, the white demographic feature of the Northeast. The fact that we have a high German population is irrelevant because Eastern PA has a lot of Germans too. Philadelphia, like Pittsburgh also has a large Polish population. And all these cities have large Jewish populations. I undoubtedly believe Cleveland to be a demographic transition area from East to Midwest.
Pittsburgh however, I believe, is a Northeastern city and an Appalachian city. Or as hillside from this forum called it: East Coast-Appalachia.

Edit: Forgot to mention that Pittsburgh started off much earlier than Cleveland, Buffalo or Cincinnati, seeing that we had our own university before either of those cities were founded. Influx of immigrants to Pittsburgh started earlier than the cities in the Midwest.
Look, the overarching point is that the Northeast is a geographical and political area of relative similarity. I believe that Pittsburgh has enough similarities with the rest of the area to not be excluded from it. It's elitists like you from DC and non-native New Yorkers who want to pretend like the Northeast begins and ends in Manhattan or Bos-Wash. Something that is offensive and spits in the face of every Buffalonian or Pittsburgher who have always thought of themselves as Northeasters, and not out of some arrogance or lack of knowledge about their area.

[dugdogmaster]

Chip72, your points/arguments in this thread are unsubstantiated, and quite frankly, mind boggling. I can't even begin to comprehend your first post in this thread. To me, it just comes across as ignorance.

[Orwelleaut]

I think CHIP72 based his opinion on Western PA on Indiana. As those of us familiar with the Pittsburgh Metro area know, basing one's opinion of Pittsburgh on Indiana makes about as much sense as basing that opinion on DuBois or maybe Uniontown. Like those two Western PA cities, Indiana is removed from the Pittsburgh metro area, and has a more small town feel than on finds around Pittsburgh. The myopic viewpoint thing that CHIP mentioned is something that, I think many big city people feel about smaller towns, upon first exposure, if they have never spent much time in a smaller town. If CHIP were to spend much time in a town like Hanover, PA, or Taneytown, MD, I think he'd be surprised to find the same locally focused mentally he noticed in Indiana. The mentality he mentioned with regards to Indiana, if fact, I have found to be much stronger in Eastern PA, especially in the coal region of NE PA. I've also found it to be very strong in small town Western NY, and rural Western Ohio. People is smaller communities tend to focus on "home", because they want to maintain and preserve their quality of life, and feel like they have some say in their communities. The community pride one finds in small college towns like Indiana, Slippery Rock, and Edinboro is what makes these towns great places to live.

[Samir_Abdul]

outside of them rowhouses pittsburgh is alot like cleveland..we had alot of them back in the day, but they knowcked thr majority of them down..you'll see rowhouses here and there now...on that tip pittsburgh is most def northeast..but the difference is alot of people expect pittsburgh to be like the "east coast" which its not..so of course they dont act and talk like everyone on I95 corridor..but they're most def north east, but cleveland and youngstown seperate the east from the midwest..after cleveland its straight flat lands..i think north east ohio is the only state in the midwest with real hills...

[ainulinale]

Originally Posted by Samir_Abdul

outside of them rowhouses pittsburgh is alot like cleveland..we had alot of them back in the day, but they knowcked thr majority of them down..you'll see rowhouses here and there now...on that tip pittsburgh is most def northeast..but the difference is alot of people expect pittsburgh to be like the "east coast" which its not..so of course they dont act and talk like everyone on I95 corridor..but they're most def north east, but cleveland and youngstown seperate the east from the midwest..after cleveland its straight flat lands..i think north east ohio is the only state in the midwest with real hills...

I agree. I'll call Pittsburgh East Coast-Appalachia. Not hectic or liberal enough to be purely East Coast; but you'd be lying if you said Pittsburgh was culturally, demographically or architecturally West Virginia or Columbus.
As for Cleveland: I think the city is adequately described as Great Lakes Midwestern. However, Cleveland and Youngstown seem to me to be the true transition of Northeast and Midwest.

[zip95]

Any one who has lived in both metros for any extended period of time knows that Pittsburgh and Philly are very different places.

I think this thread is a great example of inferiority complexes at work. As an example, Philadelphians have New York envy and love to claim that the two cities are similar...at which point New Yorkers start laughing. Here, I think we're seeing some native Pittsburghers with East Coast envy. Which, by the way, is odd to me...there's nothing wrong with Pittsburgh being its own thing.

You should ask this question in the Philly forum. I can guarantee that CHIP72's view is the dominant one.