POLL: Sexual Orientation Bill Advances (Scranton, Wilkes-Barre: 2009, mortgage, credit)

[ScranBarre]

A bill to extend anti-discrimination protections to include sexual orientation as a protected class advanced through a House of Representatives committee yesterday with the twelve Democrats approving it and the eleven Republicans opposing it. Democrats hail this as a victory for ensuring that people will be treated more equitably regardless of their sexual orientation while Republicans argue that Christians should have the right to discriminate against homosexuals. What say you in this matter, Pennsylvanians? Should one's sexual orientation be a deterrent for employment, housing, etc., or should it likewise be included as a protected class?

Sexual orientation bill advances in Pa. | Wilkes-Barre News | The Times Leader

[mams1559]

No flaming please ... this is just my opinion.

I voted no. Creating a protected class because of lifestyle/behavior is in error. Then we can say ex-convicts should be a protected class because they are discriminated against as many do not want to hire an ex-con, regardless of the offense.

Homosexual groups say they want to keep government out of their bedroom. That what they do and who they love is of no concern to the goverment, especailly when it comes to their efforts to legalize gay marriage. But isn't this legislation inviting government into their bedroom? How would the issue of sexual orientation come up at a job interview anyway? If they're already hired and then discharged allegedly because of their orientation, there's already legal avenues available to address such wrongful terminations. They seem to want to have it both ways, invite the government into their private lives when it's convenient for them and "protects" them and lock them out when it is "against" them.

[BevoInPA]

mams1559, I don't want to start a heated debate with you right now but let me lay it out.

1.) I am a gay male

2.) I am not effeminite, go to church, socialize with my neighbors versus bar-crowd

3.) I have a nice house which enhances my neighborhood

4.) I pay obscene Camp Hill school district taxes though I will never have children

5.) I contribute to causes that will NEVER benefit me, like fund raising for tottle park improvements

6.) I help my elderly neighbors, do their yard work, set up their holiday lights

7.) I pick up my dogs poop (which is more than many of my neighbors can say)

Yet. I can be fired at any moment for my "orientation". Your association with convicts is insulting. I belong to a church. I share my money, my time. It has nothing to do with the bedroom. If I had not had "relations" with another person of the same gender in 5 years I am still "homosexual" and could be fired. Then I default on my mortgage and Camp Hill looses about $6k in school taxes. Think with your head. People like me do no want to be friends with people like you yet I PAY to send your kids to school.

There are NO legal avenues to wrongful termination. Research before you speak. I am NOT protected.

I have made many, many comments on this forum and NOBODY has ever offended me like you.


Honestly, how is my house in Camp Hill with the middle aged queen, two cats and two dogs, paying $6k a year is taxes really a problem for you?

I respect peoples' religions but what have I done to you?

[mams1559]

Originally Posted by BevoInPA

mams1559, I don't want to start a heated debate with you right now but let me lay it out.

1.) I am a gay male

I am a straight male.

Originally Posted by BevoInPA

2.) I am not effeminite, go to church, socialize with my neighbors versus bar-crowd

Me too!

Originally Posted by BevoInPA

3.) I have a nice house which enhances my neighborhood

Me too!

Originally Posted by BevoInPA

4.) I pay obscene Camp Hill school district taxes though I will never have children

I pay taxes to my school district as well (not in your county)

Originally Posted by BevoInPA

5.) I contribute to causes that will NEVER benefit me, like fund raising for tottle park improvements

Me too!

Originally Posted by BevoInPA

6.) I help my elderly neighbors, do their yard work, set up their holiday lights

Me too ...for Alice. She's a widow and such a dear

Originally Posted by BevoInPA

7.) I pick up my dogs poop (which is more than many of my neighbors can say)

Hey, again, me too! I'm always stepping over messes left by other people's dogs at the park where I walk my black lab.

Originally Posted by BevoInPA

Yet. I can be fired at any moment for my "orientation". Your association with convicts is insulting. I belong to a church. I share my money, my time. It has nothing to do with the bedroom. If I had not had "relations" with another person of the same gender in 5 years I am still "homosexual" and could be fired. Then I default on my mortgage and Camp Hill looses about $6k in school taxes. Think with your head. People like me do no want to be friends with people like you yet I PAY to send your kids to school.

^== See below

Originally Posted by BevoInPA

There are NO legal avenues to wrongful termination. Research before you speak. I am NOT protected.

And you are correct and I should have remembered PA is an "at will" employment state. Meaning a job can be terminated with or without cause by either the employee or the employer. My bad .

Originally Posted by BevoInPA

I have made many, many comments on this forum and NOBODY has ever offended me like you.

My analogy was not meant to offend. It was simply to illustrate another example of "discrimination" that is not protected. My apologies for the offense.

Originally Posted by BevoInPA

Honestly, how is my house in Camp Hill with the middle aged queen, two cats and two dogs, paying $6k a year is taxes really a problem for you?

It's not a problem for me and I don't see how/why you got that it would be a problem for me

Originally Posted by BevoInPA

I respect peoples' religions but what have I done to you?

Absolutely nothing and again, I wasn't intending to insult anyone.


So, basically, aside from me being straight, I'm in the same boat as you. I also could be fired tomorrow for any and all reasons my employer deems appropriate and what recourse do I have? Should I have protected status as well? This is the dilema.

[BevoInPA]

I appreciate the response. I am gay, I am concerned about my civil rights, but I really don't get charged up until someone seems to be targeting me. I try to mind my own business, personally, but am sincerely interested in the future of my borough, my former school district, and if someone is offended by my 'sexual orientation' I ignore them.

[ainulinale]

I don't know what this bill specifically says, but the idea that Republicans feel that "Christians should have the right to discriminate against homosexuals" seems a bit absurd to me. I'm a registered libertarian who often votes Republican, and so naturally I don't care whether or not gays get "married". What I do care about is that the government isn't forcing churches to ordain or marry homosexuals, as this is government interfering with the belief system of religion and the freedom of various communities to act in accordance with their beliefs. This I feel would be a serious breach of the government's power. I'm for less government involvement not more.
Is it not still the right in this country to have a private club? Or are we still in second grade where we need the teacher to force us to share and be inclusive of everyone?

[ScranBarre]

To be fair, mams, this bill could protect you as well. Let us assume the unlikely event that your employer is bought out by a gay couple who also happen to be business partners, and they decide that they are going to eradicate the entirety of their heterosexual workforce in favor of only hiring homosexuals. Since Pennsylvania is an at-will employment state, and since sexual orientation is NOT currently a protected class for discrimination, then you would have NO legal basis to sue for restitution and/or to regain your position within the company because it was perfectly legal for that gay couple to fire you because you were straight. I know that sounds completely STUPID, but it CAN happen. Given the fact that probably 92% of the nation is heterosexual though, the odds of this happening to you are slim. For those in the homosexual minority such as Bevo, myself, and a large number of our other PA forum members, it is a constant fear that we could be terminated at a moment's notice for this very reason by heterosexual superiors.

This isn't "giving the gays special rights." This is a way of protecting everyone, whether you're heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual, or whatever from facing discrimination based upon this inherent aspect of their lives. I'm 100% in support of this bill and hope it sees the light of day (I'm already readying my debating skills for the likely uproar it will cause when publicity spreads). Think it doesn't affect you because you're straight? Well, I hope to become a successful entrepreneur someday when I eventually make the pilgrimage back home to my beloved Scranton. I'll be a great employer who will offer generous benefits, flex time, and competitive wages. Want a job with me? You better be gay. Sound unfair to you? Of course! Is it legal as of right now for me to do that? YES! Naturally I'm too open-minded to ever consider making such foolish hiring decisions, but I can't say the same for some narrow-minded heterosexual employers if the shoe were on the other foot.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by ainulinale

I don't know what this bill specifically says, but the idea that Republicans feel that "Christians should have the right to discriminate against homosexuals" seems a bit absurd to me. I'm a registered libertarian who often votes Republican, and so naturally I don't care whether or not gays get "married". What I do care about is that the government isn't forcing churches to ordain or marry homosexuals, as this is government interfering with the belief system of religion and the freedom of various communities to act in accordance with their beliefs. This I feel would be a serious breach of the government's power. I'm for less government involvement not more.
Is it not still the right in this country to have a private club? Or are we still in second grade where we need the teacher to force us to share and be inclusive of everyone?

If you feel as if marriage has a religious connotation that ought to be respected and not trampled upon, then may I respectfully ask as to why Christians do not express outrage when Atheists, the very same people who deny God's existence, choose to wed at the county courthouse? Double-standard, anyone?

Employment options, housing options, etc. should be universally available to everyone. They should not be "private clubs." Imagine a world where you can apply for a job as a bouncer at a gay-oriented night club but be denied because you are heterosexual or where you and your same-sex partner can be discriminated against as prospective tenants by a landlord who instead chooses a heterosexual couple with sketchier references, a poor credit history, and a lower annual household income. This "world", my friends, is Pennsylvania. Our state is embarrassingly behind the rest of the Northeast in terms of social trends, and it's about time we start playing a quick game of "catch-up," lest our reputation of being "Pennsyltucky" or "Alabama in the middle" perpetuates itself for yet another generation! I want to see our state heralded as visionary, not reactionary, for a change.

[ainulinale]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

I'll be a great employer who will offer generous benefits, flex time, and competitive wages. Want a job with me? You better be gay. Sound unfair to you? Of course!

I sympathize with your situation, but this example does not sound unfair to me. You should have the right to organize YOUR company the way YOU want to. That wouldn't make what you're doing right though.

[ScranBarre]

Ummm...Bevo...did you just argue against mams's position while voting along the same lines?