Harrisburg area getting more diverse (Philadelphia, Scranton: middle-class, for sale, apartment complex)

[danwxman]

Originally Posted by rainrock

Last weekend I rode up 222 into Lancaster for the first time in 20 years and it was an eye opener to say the least. Diversity is encouraged and applauded but what I saw was future disaster. The neighborhood I rode up through(I guess South Lancaster) wasn't diverse at all it was heavily minority(hispanic/black) and even less diverse along economic lines,appeared very very poor from my standpoint. It looked like they moved a part of the Bronx to a small pristine town, the last place on earth you would expected such a thing.Especially coming up from Amish Country, surreal.

The Philadelphia suburban counties Chester,Montgomery,Bucks and to a lesser extent Delaware saw the eventual pitfalls of cities and wont build anything closely resembling a city. They along with Berks + Lancaster Counties have basically built themselves up to be ghettoproof, poverty + crime had to jump over that suburban area to get into the aging small towns but it did and Reading,allentown,Lancaster,York are in the beginning stages of a bad act.Once it sets in and entrenches unfortunately its over.Toxicity ensues.

I don't know where you've been but Lancaster, York and Reading have had crime issues and large minority populations for decades now. If anything, Lancaster city is gentrifying and has a growing arts community downtown. Same thing happening in York but at a slower pace. Not so sure about Reading, but I have heard good things.

Just like in Philly, the crime and trouble is spreading into the suburbs now. I know of some pretty shady suburban apartment complexes around Harrisburg, York and Lancaster. Bad part is they are all auto-centric and large cul-de-sacs...wouldn't want to get stuck in one of those.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by danwxman

I don't know where you've been but Lancaster, York and Reading have had crime issues and large minority populations for decades now. If anything, Lancaster city is gentrifying and has a growing arts community downtown. Same thing happening in York but at a slower pace. Not so sure about Reading, but I have heard good things.

Just like in Philly, the crime and trouble is spreading into the suburbs now. I know of some pretty shady suburban apartment complexes around Harrisburg, York and Lancaster. Bad part is they are all auto-centric and large cul-de-sacs...wouldn't want to get stuck in one of those.

As I mentioned I hadnt been to Lancaster in decades. Obviously I have heard that Lancaster changed dramatically but to see with my own eyes how dramatically was in a word, shocking. Perhaps I rode through one of the poor parts of town and its good to hear about Lancaster on the move. That being said, my experience with Lancaster as a kid was magical the latest episode closer defined by sheer dismay.

[danwxman]

Originally Posted by rainrock

As I mentioned I hadnt been to Lancaster in decades. Obviously I have heard that Lancaster changed dramatically but to see with my own eyes how dramatically was in a word, shocking. Perhaps I rode through one of the poor parts of town and its good to hear about Lancaster on the move. That being said, my experience with Lancaster as a kid was magical the latest episode closer defined by sheer dismay.

Yes, it is pretty crazy to go from the middle of Amish country to a Puerto Rican ghetto in a matter of a few miles. The south/southeast side of town is particularly in bad shape right now.

[AlexisT]

Originally Posted by rainrock

The Philadelphia suburban counties Chester,Montgomery,Bucks and to a lesser extent Delaware saw the eventual pitfalls of cities and wont build anything closely resembling a city. They along with Berks + Lancaster Counties have basically built themselves up to be ghettoproof, poverty + crime had to jump over that suburban area to get into the aging small towns but it did and Reading,allentown,Lancaster,York are in the beginning stages of a bad act.Once it sets in and entrenches its over.Thats just how it works in this country, the poor are deposited into contained areas and trouble soon follows.

If you think suburbia is ghetto-proof, you are sorely mistaken. I could take you on a tour of some very nasty NYC suburbia, complete with crack houses, liquor stores with bars on the windows, and regular shootings. It's no south Bronx, but it's got city problems by the barrel.

As for the tech issue: my husband took an IT job here (Harrisburg area) recently. He was amazed to discover that about half his office is not from this area and often not from the US. Indians, Australians, Europeans. (My husband isn't American either, for that matter, but he lives here and has a green card because I'm American, not for employment reasons.) This area has the double whammy of no local college turning out IT grads and not being hugely desirable for Americans looking to relocate. (NEPA draws in the New Yorkers, but south central PA does not.)

[Lucario]

Originally Posted by AlexisT

If you think suburbia is ghetto-proof, you are sorely mistaken. I could take you on a tour of some very nasty NYC suburbia, complete with crack houses, liquor stores with bars on the windows, and regular shootings. It's no south Bronx, but it's got city problems by the barrel.

As for the tech issue: my husband took an IT job here (Harrisburg area) recently. He was amazed to discover that about half his office is not from this area and often not from the US. Indians, Australians, Europeans. (My husband isn't American either, for that matter, but he lives here and has a green card because I'm American, not for employment reasons.) This area has the double whammy of no local college turning out IT grads and not being hugely desirable for Americans looking to relocate. (NEPA draws in the New Yorkers, but south central PA does not.)

Colleges don't turn out IT grads because they understand what happens in corporate America; IT is either the domain of the H1Bs or it is simply offshored. Any American kid who wants to get into IT is told that it is closed to him. I guarantee you that if high schools and colleges cranked out people skilled in IT, they would be where the jobs were, and that would include the Harrisburg area.

[pman]

Originally Posted by mattjd

Now remember that Democrats now have over a million registered democrats more than republicans...and that just happened in the past year and a half...

you just don't get it. Penn didn't all of a sudden become NJ, the Republican party kicked Pennsylvanians out of it. this state has always been somewhat socially conservative but mostly fiscally conservative. they both based on "pocketbook issues". The Republican party has too many narrow minded haters like yourself and they've been booting the moderates out. the Philadelphia suburbs are largely moderates. don't come in here blaming everything on minorities and immigrants, you did it to yourself.


rainrock-Lancaster City has long had a large hispanic population. Puerto Ricans came to Lancaster to work in the factories decades ago. they found widespread discrimination and substantial white flight, then the factory jobs disappeared and they were stuck in the city school system.

=rainroack]The Philadelphia suburban counties Chester,Montgomery,Bucks and to a lesser extent Delaware saw the eventual pitfalls of cities and wont build anything closely resembling a city

quite the opposite, they used cities as their dumping grounds. Chester county piled all their section 8 and social services into coatesville, montco into norristown, and delco into chester.

[pman]

Originally Posted by danwxman

Just like in Philly, the crime and trouble is spreading into the suburbs now. I know of some pretty shady suburban apartment complexes around Harrisburg, York and Lancaster. Bad part is they are all auto-centric and large cul-de-sacs...wouldn't want to get stuck in one of those.

the drug trade is spreading into the suburbs, where many of the high end buyers are. a substantial portion of our crime problem stems from drug prohibition but to get rid of drug prohibition would mean an end to the growth in the incarceration industry.

[BackToTheCityMouse]

Where do the urban poor and lower income working people go when the city they live in 'gentrifies'?

Do they automagically qualify for a free rehabed townhouse with the granite, the marble, the stainless steel, and the whirlpool tub? Or do they all get grants to open art galleries or fancy eateries and watering holes?

Or do they just get sqeezed out into the inner ring suburbs, with their older unrehabed lower value housing occupied by seniors and others living on a fixed (low) income?

Gentrification doesn't solve the problem of the urban poor. It simply relocates it outside the hipster zone.

[danwxman]

Originally Posted by BackToTheCityMouse

Where do the urban poor and lower income working people go when the city they live in 'gentrifies'?

Do they automagically qualify for a free rehabed townhouse with the granite, the marble, the stainless steel, and the whirlpool tub? Or do they all get grants to open art galleries or fancy eateries and watering holes?

Or do they just get sqeezed out into the inner ring suburbs, with their older unrehabed lower value housing occupied by seniors and others living on a fixed (low) income?

Gentrification doesn't solve the problem of the urban poor. It simply relocates it outside the hipster zone.

Agree to an extent..For the longest time many of Harrisburg's poor just got shifted around. Believe it or not one hundred years ago downtown was the poor ghetto of Harrisburg, then the poor was pushed into Midtown. Now Allison Hill and Uptown. But now there's nowhere else to go. Next to Allison Hill is Bellevue Park, which isn't going to go downhill. and Next to Uptown is Riverside which is single family homes just like Bellevue Park.

The only place for them to go is the suburbs. Penbrook, Lower Paxton Township and even the pristine west shore suburbs like Lemoyne and New Cumberland are seeing their influx and will continue to.

There is affordable housing being built in Harrisburg which helps. Governor's Square in Midtown for example. My friend tried to buy into one and was actually denied because he made too much money (you must take in less then $50k to buy them). There is also affordable housing being built or rehabbed in Uptown (the city government bought a whole block of abandoned homes on Oxford street, rehabbed them, and they are selling for less than 70k). Harrisburg, I think, is doing the right things. Try getting the suburbs to build affordable housing!

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by pman

.
quite the opposite, they used cities as their dumping grounds. Chester county piled all their section 8 and social services into coatesville, montco into norristown, and delco into chester.

NO question. Coatesville and Chester are cities that have been around forever, you can add Upper Darby in there as well.I should have been more clear, I am mainly talking about new development which has occurred in the past half century.