South Central PA-Becoming Baltimore Territory?

[SA Sup]

The taxes in Southern PA, Stewartstown, are higher than MD taxes! School taxes get you, but the schools are good. You could live in DE and pay little taxes with not very good schools.

[CHIP72]

I lived in the Harrisburg area for almost 8 years (and grew up in the Lehigh Valley), have a degree in geography, and work in transportation, so I think my 2 cents have value (then again, maybe not ).

In general, in terms of "Baltimore/Washington influence" in south central PA, it really depends on where you are located in south central PA.

*The York and Hanover areas and in general most of York County (excluding the northern third closest to Harrisburg) definitely falls more within the Baltimore sphere than anything else. Those areas, especially Hanover, do get Baltimore TV stations on cable. Sports-wise, in baseball the Orioles are definitely the most popular team, though the Phillies have a sizable minority of fans. Those are the 2 "local" teams there; there are only a small number of Pirates fans there. In football, it is a more even split between the Eagles, Ravens, and Steelers (with a few Redskins fans thrown in), though I suspect when the Colts played in Baltimore there were a higher percentage of Colts fans then than Ravens fans today in York County.

*The Harrisburg area has distinctly less of a Baltimore or Washington influence than the areas immediately to the south do, but it is definitely still there. Sports-wise, the Phillies, 76ers, and Flyers are clearly the most popular teams in their respective sports in the Harrisburg area. Regarding the other MLB teams, the Orioles would almost definitely rank ahead of the Pirates (and definitely ahead of the Nationals) but well behind the Phillies. There are a decent number of Yankees (and to a lesser degree, Mets) fans in the area (and all of south central PA) due to a decent number of NYC area transplants and in the case of the Yankees, bandwagon fans. In football, the Eagles and Steelers are pretty close in popularity (with the Eagles probably being a shade more popular) and are the most popular teams. There are a few Ravens and Redskins fans in the Harrisburg area, but a lot fewer than either Eagles or Steelers fans. The Harrisburg Patriot-News gives more than standard coverage to all 4 teams, though in many cases the articles are AP articles. Like with the Yankees and Mets, there are a few Giants fans running around too (in addition to the present-everywhere handful of Cowboys fans).

*The Lancaster area is sort of the inverse of York in terms of baseball fan affiliation, with the Phillies being clearly the most popular team and the Orioles having a decent-sized minority following. Like most of south central PA, there are few Pirates fans. In football, the fan affiliation is like Harrisburg, except that there are a higher percentage of Eagles fans, a lower percentage of Steelers fans, and a higher percentage of Ravens fans (though still not as many Ravens fans as Steelers fans). The number of Redskins fans is lower too.

*The Lebanon area is similar to the Harrisburg area except that the Baltimore influence (and fan affiliation) is less there than in Harrisburg. In other words, there are few Orioles fans there and very few Ravens fans there. There are also few Redskins fans there.

*The Gettysburg area tends to be more strongly aligned with Washington relatively-speaking than all other areas in south central PA, mainly because it is closer and more directly connected to DC. Having said that, in baseball the Phillies and Orioles are the popular teams (I'm guessing relatively close to an even split, probably a few more Orioles fans than Phillies fans), while the Nationals are still not that popular. In football, again there is a mix between the Eagles, Steelers, Ravens, and Redskins (probably a more even mix between the 4 teams than anywhere else in PA).

*The Chambersburg area, compared to the Gettysburg area, tends to have a stronger Pittsburgh influence and a weaker Philadelphia influence. The Orioles are probably the most popular baseball team, with the Pirates second, and the Nationals and Phillies behind both teams. In football, the Steelers are probably first, with the Redskins, Ravens, and Eagles behind them in that order.

Though the thread is about south central PA and not eastern PA, I have to comment A) Mets fans do not take over Citizens Bank Park when the Mets play there (maybe 20-25% of the fans at most) and B) northeastern PA, as previously noted, has always been a strong New York fan area (even before the NYC area transplants moved to the Poconos), though Philadelphia affiliation is a little stronger. The reason for the many Mets fans is that getting to CBP is easier for many Mets fans in central and even northern NJ than getting to the Shea Stadium area. As for the fan breakdown in northeastern PA, in football the 3 primary teams are Eagles, Steelers, and Giants in that order while in baseball it is close between the Phillies and Yankees.

Finally, here's a rundown of fan affiliation of some people I know from the areas in question:

*A friend of mine who grew up in Hanover is an Orioles and Ravens fan (and was a Colts fan when he was young).

*Another friend of mine who grew about 10 miles north of Hanover is an Orioles and Colts fan (he didn't convert when the Colts moved). He also likes the Wizards and Georgetown in pro/college basketball.

*My father and his family were from northeastern PA (down river from Wilkes-Barre in Bloomsburg). My father grew up in the 1950's as a Yankees and (football) Giants fan, though the Phillies were his National League team. His best friend growing up was a Phillies and Eagles fan.

*I grew up about 10 miles north of Bethlehem as a Philly sports fan, following the Eagles, Phillies, 76ers, and the Big Five college basketball teams most closely. (I also follow Lehigh and Lafayette in college sports.) The Steelers and Giants (or vice-versa) in football and the Yankees in baseball are the primary secondary teams in the area where I grew up (Lehigh Valley).

[firefightermom]

Originally Posted by LivingSingle123

A ex-boyfriend, who was a third- or fourth-generation York County resident, said that many folks in South Central Pennsylvania referred to the influx of folks from Baltimore as 'Baltimorons'.

He said that "Baltimorons move to Pennsylvania to get away from the taxes, and then complain that they can't get the public services they had in Maryland."

Funny! My husband is a Gaithersburg, MD native, and everyone there also calls them BaltiMorons. So the name's been around for at least 35ish years.

[sr1234]

Originally Posted by NCTarheels

The civil war ended 150 years ago.. and you my friend need to catch up on your geography. The Mid atlantic is BETWEEN the north and the south.. why do you think it's called the Keystone state? Why do you think Maryland's called 'Old Line state'? PA and MD (Pre civil war) Divided the northern colonies from the southern colonies, Delaware used to be part of PA, and it was a southern colony.

IMO, The modern day Mid atlantic consists of PA, VA, MD, WV, DE, DC and sometimes NJ

If you knew what you were talking about you'd know that South central and western PA are no different really than MD or West VA, in Fact PA is a much more 'red' state than MD.

Northwestern PA is NOTHING like the rest of the state. It has much more of a hardworking all-american Midwest attitude.

[CHIP72]

Originally Posted by sr1234

Northwestern PA is NOTHING like the rest of the state. It has much more of a hardworking all-american Midwest attitude.

It also gets a lot more snow.

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by sr1234

Northwestern PA is NOTHING like the rest of the state. It has much more of a hardworking all-american Midwest attitude.

Are you trying to say that the remainder of Pennsylvanians are lazy, partly-American bums? There are plenty of hardworking people in the entire state. It is foolish to try to say that a particular area of the state has the hardest working people.

[sr1234]

Originally Posted by miamiman

Are you trying to say that the remainder of Pennsylvanians are lazy, partly-American bums? There are plenty of hardworking people in the entire state. It is foolish to try to say that a particular area of the state has the hardest working people.

this coming from someone who lives in AZ.

[lycopennson]

I can't imagine a worse hell, than the idea that my Commonwealth, could be identified in any way, as a Southern state. The very notion is revolting.

[North Beach Person]

One of the reasons many Marylanders are moving to PA is the fact that MD taxes pensions and PA doesn't. Add that to getting more house for the money (although property taxes are sometimes close to a wash and PA has some of those strange nuisance taxes) and generally better school systems and PA becomes attractive. Having lived in MD for the better part of three decades I have to say that there is a "MD mentality"-one of supposed superiority, self-centeredness, self-aggrandizement, and that if you're from MD you know everything and everyone else is an idiot. This trait is most noticeable in people from the northen tier of MD counties (Montgomery, Howard, Carroll, Baltimore) and we see the attitude from them moving here to Southern MD.
"why don't I have a streetlight on my rural road?"
"why can't there be more quaint boutiques?"
"where is the mall?"
"we need an artist's colony"
"where can we get some Thai food"
"those people on the Bay have guns and they're killing my ducks"

[CHIP72]

Originally Posted by lycopennson

I can't imagine a worse hell, than the idea that my Commonwealth, could be identified in any way, as a Southern state. The very notion is revolting.

I'm pretty sure there was nothing in this thread that mentioned south central PA identifying with the southern half of Virginia.