It really IS hard to live below one's means! (wealthy, buy, house)
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Because you live in the Bay Area. Its considered a status state. Driving a luxury car is common there. Overall, you are right, its none of their business. They can think whatever they want about you.
So true.... and it's sad we have a husband and wife who live in their Caddy on the streets around here.
But I still say tell people it's none of their business.... maybe someday they'll stop thinking about stuff that isn't!
So true.... and it's sad we have a husband and wife who live in their Caddy on the streets around here.
But I still say tell people it's none of their business.... maybe someday they'll stop thinking about stuff that isn't!
Are you in Oakland Hills? I graduated from Cal State Hayward (East Bay). I also know people who brag about going to a top notch university also. A lot of them seem to be unemployed and/or have very little interpersonal skills.
Are you in Oakland Hills? I graduated from Cal State Hayward (East Bay). I also know people who brag about going to a top notch university also. A lot of them seem to be unemployed and/or have very little interpersonal skills.
We live in the flats. The "scary" part of town.
Hubby and I are both Penn State grads. Since we own our own business we are gainfully employed..... but unemployment is REALLY bad around here.
I know good people that have been out of work for going on two years. The interviewing process almost seems like exercise in futility. One woman I know has had four interviews for a mid level job over a period of three months, one of which was two hours with the president and owner of the company, and the job is still listed as open, and they may be calling her back for another interview.
Her attitude is she may as well keep going, because it keeps her interviewing skills up.
As far as interpersonal skills... I think the internet has a lot to do with that...
Hubby and I are both Penn State grads. Since we own our own business we are gainfully employed..... but unemployment is REALLY bad around here.
I know good people that have been out of work for going on two years. The interviewing process almost seems like exercise in futility. One woman I know has had four interviews for a mid level job over a period of three months, one of which was two hours with the president and owner of the company, and the job is still listed as open, and they may be calling her back for another interview.
Her attitude is she may as well keep going, because it keeps her interviewing skills up.
As far as interpersonal skills... I think the internet has a lot to do with that...
Well I grew up in San Jose. CA is bankrupt! Consider relocation for a job.
Well I grew up in San Jose. CA is bankrupt! Consider relocation for a job.
I think she is, but even then, it's hard to leave family when you've been here all your life and your family is here and you're close.
We essentially did that in 1984, when steel dying killed most of Western PA. There was nothing there. There'd be an ad for one part time job at McDonalds and 500 people would show up.
So we packed up and moved out here.... I cried for a year. I wanted to go HOME.
But I got over it, and this is home now. And we're doing well.
I think she is, but even then, it's hard to leave family when you've been here all your life and your family is here and you're close.
We essentially did that in 1984, when steel dying killed most of Western PA. There was nothing there. There'd be an ad for one part time job at McDonalds and 500 people would show up.
So we packed up and moved out here.... I cried for a year. I wanted to go HOME.
But I got over it, and this is home now. And we're doing well.
Is her family helping her out with finances? What made you move to Bay Area?
Is her family helping her out with finances? What made you move to Bay Area?
As far as I know, she's making it on her own just fine.
What made us come to the Bay Area? Well.... when my husband was nine, he came out here on a family trip and loved it.
After we got married, he lost his job due to cutbacks and nothing was happening on the job front. He was out of work for over 8 months.
But some friends of his saw the hand writing on the wall, sold their not thriving anymore record business and moved out to San Leandro. Three weeks after they left they called Hubby and said to get out here -- they both had gotten jobs a few days after they got here.
They were willing to put Hubby up for a few weeks, and then me for a week or two till we found our own place and I found a job... and lent us stuff to work our household till our stuff was shipped.....
So, when times are bad, you may have to move to find a better spot. But it's far more daunting when you're 50 something than when you're 20 something.... I think about moving back east when we retire and it feels way more difficult than when we did it then.
As far as I know, she's making it on her own just fine.
What made us come to the Bay Area? Well.... when my husband was nine, he came out here on a family trip and loved it.
After we got married, he lost his job due to cutbacks and nothing was happening on the job front. He was out of work for over 8 months.
But some friends of his saw the hand writing on the wall, sold their not thriving anymore record business and moved out to San Leandro. Three weeks after they left they called Hubby and said to get out here -- they both had gotten jobs a few days after they got here.
They were willing to put Hubby up for a few weeks, and then me for a week or two till we found our own place and I found a job... and lent us stuff to work our household till our stuff was shipped.....
So, when times are bad, you may have to move to find a better spot. But it's far more daunting when you're 50 something than when you're 20 something.... I think about moving back east when we retire and it feels way more difficult than when we did it then.
I would like to retire in bay area only when I have atleast $2 million saved up.
It would appear based on recent history that it's natural for one to spend MORE than one makes.
My experience tells me that the easiest way to live within your means is to pay careful attention to your large, fixed costs: housing and transportation. If you can control those two and shun debt, even those with fairly modest incomes have a good chance of living within their means. Although it's no guarantee, living in a modest apartment/house and driving an older car (or doing without completely) can go a long way toward helping you develop a good savings.
My spouse and I get some raised eyebrows occasionally, especially about our lack of a second car, but nobody walks around with their bank balances tattooed on their foreheads, so the only way we can look successful is to have "things" to show off. If you don't have the things that are common for your socio-economic grouping, people assume you're hurting. You have to develop a bit of a thick skin. In the end, though, the peace of mind is well worth it.
I agree on all counts. Problem is, most people don't have self control. They also don't like to go against what their family and friends are doing, even though they won't admit it.
It's human nature to compare ourselves to others as a measure of our success, but it's been a destructive force when caused me to make decisions that were not in my long-term best interest. I'm not going to lie. It's sometimes been painful when others make assumptions about my family's finances based on externalities, so I have to keep in mind what I'm trying to accomplish. That helps me stay the course when the neighbor comes home with a brand-new car or talks excitedly about their month-long Hawaiian vacation.
Keeping the big expenses under control really does make a difference. I think members of the middle class in particular (and I'm one of them) are prone to overestimate what we can legitimately afford. A bank tells us that we can purchase a house that's four times our income, and we jump for it. We've gotten accustomed to the idea of never paying things off. My own mother, who should know better, has said to me countless times, "It doesn't matter how much it costs as long as you can make the payment." That's crazy talk. Of course it matters!
Even worse, housing prices have outstripped income gains so much in many parts of the country that it really does feel like taking a step down to buy something affordable. (e.g., Had it been in the Bay Area, the house I grew up in would have easily topped a million and not at all possible for us to afford, but it was a middle class house in the midwest.) That can be a hard pill to swallow, because I think it's normal to want to give our kids at least as nice a childhood as the one we experienced. Thinking we can't measure up can be a kick in the teeth, no matter how large our income.
So, I guess my overall point is that having long term goals, being content with living a little smaller than "normal" and minimizing debt have been key for us, but bucking the trend has its downside. Eventually, however, you reach a point (for me it was my forties) when you stop caring so much what other people think. And, then you're home free!
Another thing that helps is to realize that comparing yourself to others actually makes people unhappy! (There is a lot of research to confirm this).
I also think it helps to realize that happiness is more than just about the size of the house you live in. As long as you have a decent roof over your head in a safe neighborhood, then sqaure footage is somewhat less important. Americans are obsessed with square footage. Most middle class folks have more house than they really need. Once again, once you hit a certain point, more house or more things or even more money does not make people any happier.
In any case, it sounds like you've figured this out. Hopefully other people on CD forums will benefit from posts like yours and mine and figure this stuff out long before they hit their 40s.
Last edited by mysticaltyger; 07-19-2010 at 11:01 AM..
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