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Old 04-19-2011, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 16,686,880 times
Reputation: 4303

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
The point is, is that Detroit's downfall and Pittsburgh's too were both driven the collapse of industry not the collapse of the Real Estate market like you are suggesting in NYC>
I never suggested that the fall of those cities was due to a collapse in real estate, instead I suggested that the real estate cycle played a role in their slow decline.

Detroit, Pittsburgh, etc didn't decline over night, it occurred over decades. During the boom real estate was bid up, when their key industries started to decline there was a vacuum which was hard to fill because everyone was bid up to boom levels. Real estate is sticky. Blaming the fall of Detroit, Pittsburgh solely on industry doesn't make much sense, the decline didn't happen over night and other industries were born throughout the country.
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 16,686,880 times
Reputation: 4303
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
Your premium would be based on a lot of factors that are not clear here. Age, a myriad of deductibles, yearly and lifetime maximums. Out-of packet maximums, HMO, PPO, 70, 80 or 90% coverage, choice of health care providers, co-pays?
Its a pretty simple plan, its a HSA compatible high deductible plan with a deductible of $3,000. Maximum out-of-pocket (in-network) is the same as the deductible, there are no yearly or lifetime maximums (those don't exist anymore, btw). Its a PPO, there are no co-pays, and everything is paid 100% after the deductible.

If you got the same plan today it would cover preventive care regardless of whether you've reached your deductible and it would cost you around $15/month more.

Anyhow, its not a low-end health care policy, HSA policies are just cheaper but they require the users to save. Health insurance companies also use them to screen you, essentially in the private insurance market. That is, it helps the insurance companies solve the asymmetric situation they face when insuring someone. Someone picking a HSA policies is likely to be healthier...
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:45 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,542 posts, read 17,325,842 times
Reputation: 3677
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Its a pretty simple plan, its a HSA compatible high deductible plan with a deductible of $3,000. Maximum out-of-pocket (in-network) is the same as the deductible, there are no yearly or lifetime maximums (those don't exist anymore, btw). Its a PPO, there are no co-pays, and everything is paid 100% after the deductible.

If you got the same plan today it would cover preventive care regardless of whether you've reached your deductible and it would cost you around $15/month more.

Anyhow, its not a low-end health care policy, HSA policies are just cheaper but they require the users to save. Health insurance companies also use them to screen you, essentially in the private insurance market. That is, it helps the insurance companies solve the asymmetric situation they face when insuring someone. Someone picking a HSA policies is likely to be healthier...
that's still pretty good though. my insurance through my employer is a co-insurance plan that covers 90% until i hit $1,000 out of pocket. then it covers 100%. i pay slightly more than you i believe. haven't looked at it since november.
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 16,686,880 times
Reputation: 4303
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
that's still pretty good though. my insurance through my employer is a co-insurance plan that covers 90% until i hit $1,000 out of pocket. then it covers 100%. i pay slightly more than you i believe. haven't looked at it since november.
Just to note, this is a private plan, its not through an employer. The fact that you pay around the same as me says a lot about the state of the health care system. The employer model doesn't work...
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:17 PM
 
24,511 posts, read 33,309,724 times
Reputation: 12755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
I guess dad was a pretty good resource and safety net for you.
No, we didn't get along. He cut me off financially at 14. But that led to good things.
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:19 PM
 
24,511 posts, read 33,309,724 times
Reputation: 12755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post

I say bring on the flat tax!
I agree, or consumption tax.
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Holmdel, NJ
21,642 posts, read 27,554,531 times
Reputation: 13670
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Just to note, this is a private plan, its not through an employer. The fact that you pay around the same as me says a lot about the state of the health care system. The employer model doesn't work...
i agree. it is offensive that health insurance is attached to employers.
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,414 posts, read 8,085,273 times
Reputation: 6331
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Its a pretty simple plan, its a HSA compatible high deductible plan with a deductible of $3,000. Maximum out-of-pocket (in-network) is the same as the deductible, there are no yearly or lifetime maximums (those don't exist anymore, btw). Its a PPO, there are no co-pays, and everything is paid 100% after the deductible.

If you got the same plan today it would cover preventive care regardless of whether you've reached your deductible and it would cost you around $15/month more.

Anyhow, its not a low-end health care policy, HSA policies are just cheaper but they require the users to save. Health insurance companies also use them to screen you, essentially in the private insurance market. That is, it helps the insurance companies solve the asymmetric situation they face when insuring someone. Someone picking a HSA policies is likely to be healthier...
Curious about this... What vendors offer this? Blue Cross?

Would it be more cost-effective (compared to group health plans) for a small business to set up this type of private, individual HSA plan for each employee (assuming they are young and healthy)? The employer could contribute a flat amount to reduce the deductible amount (e.g. $3,000). The benefit money in the HSA would then need to be used within the benefit year, correct? Also, an unhealthy employee would more likely be denied coverage after HSA underwriting than with a standard group plan. I'm also wondering how annual reviews work...

I have been meaning to research this further on my own. But I get annoyed by insurance company reps and their 2,000 page benefit analysis documents.

Last edited by GoCUBS1; 04-19-2011 at 02:40 PM..
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 16,686,880 times
Reputation: 4303
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1 View Post
Would it be more cost-effective (compared to group health plans) for a small business to set up this type of private, individual HSA plan for each employee (assuming they are young and healthy)? The employer could contribute a flat amount to reduce the deductible amount (e.g. $3,000). The benefit money in the HSA would then need to be used within the benefit year, correct? Also, an unhealthy employee would more likely be denied coverage after HSA underwriting than with a standard group plan. I'm also wondering how annual reviews work...
Yes it should be cheaper for a small-business to set-up HSA plans, even if they are making contributions as well as paying the premium. In terms of the HSA, the money doesn't have to be spent within the benefit year, and the funds can be invested in whatever you wish. Contributions to the HSA are tax deductible (up to ~$3,000/year for an individual) and can be used tax free for medical costs, or can be used like an traditional IRA if you hit retirement age.

Anyhow, HSA policies allow you to self-insurance for minor medical costs and insurance for major medical costs. Despite their awesomeness, they don't seem to be that popular with average people, people are just use to the traditional policies where you can completely ignore the charges and have your insurance pay.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,414 posts, read 8,085,273 times
Reputation: 6331
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Yes it should be cheaper for a small-business to set-up HSA plans, even if they are making contributions as well as paying the premium. In terms of the HSA, the money doesn't have to be spent within the benefit year, and the funds can be invested in whatever you wish. Contributions to the HSA are tax deductible (up to ~$3,000/year for an individual) and can be used tax free for medical costs, or can be used like an traditional IRA if you hit retirement age.

Anyhow, HSA policies allow you to self-insurance for minor medical costs and insurance for major medical costs. Despite their awesomeness, they don't seem to be that popular with average people, people are just use to the traditional policies where you can completely ignore the charges and have your insurance pay.
Ok, thanks... I will look into this more. I'm assuming with an HSA you would lose the insurance company's negotiated pricing for medical procedures, thereby paying the provider's higher billed costs which could be significant.
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