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Old 09-15-2011, 07:24 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,288,689 times
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A quote from Business News, Stock Quotes, Investment Advice - DailyFinance states… “Habits are hard to break: Just when you think you're firmly in control, you backslide again. Such may be the case with Americans debt addiction”.

“According to CardHub.com's, Q2 2011 Credit Card Debt Study, U.S. consumers accumulated a staggering $18.4 billion in credit card debt in the second quarter -- 66% more than they accumulated in the same quarter a year ago, and 368% more than in the second quarter of 2009. Based on the study, Americans will end 2011with around $54 billion more in credit card debt than they began the year with”.

Now my question is, do you think this rise in credit card debt is due to an increase in economic confidence, or is it a sign that people now need credit to survive?
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:43 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,090 posts, read 82,975,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Now my question is, do you think this rise in credit card debt is due to an increase in economic confidence, or is it a sign that people now need credit to survive?
Confidence of course.
New tires for the car to make the commute to the new job safer,
a few new suits, shirts, shoes to look better while there,
a few dinners out celebrating all the good things coming their way...
That sort of thing.
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Old 09-15-2011, 09:04 AM
 
2,514 posts, read 1,987,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post

Now my question is, do you think this rise in credit card debt is due to an increase in economic confidence, or is it a sign that people now need credit to survive?
There was a drop in demand. Credit to survive or more credit available.
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Old 09-15-2011, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,165,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Now my question is, do you think this rise in credit card debt is due to an increase in economic confidence, or is it a sign that people now need credit to survive?
Well, they better start paying it down now, or Christmas is going to really suck for retailers.

Anyway, people are using credit to survive. If you read consumer confidence surveys over the period prior, the period during and the present, there is no consumer confidence.
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Old 09-15-2011, 12:02 PM
 
78,408 posts, read 60,593,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
A quote from Business News, Stock Quotes, Investment Advice - DailyFinance states… “Habits are hard to break: Just when you think you're firmly in control, you backslide again. Such may be the case with Americans debt addiction”.

“According to CardHub.com's, Q2 2011 Credit Card Debt Study, U.S. consumers accumulated a staggering $18.4 billion in credit card debt in the second quarter -- 66% more than they accumulated in the same quarter a year ago, and 368% more than in the second quarter of 2009. Based on the study, Americans will end 2011with around $54 billion more in credit card debt than they began the year with”.

Now my question is, do you think this rise in credit card debt is due to an increase in economic confidence, or is it a sign that people now need credit to survive?
The problem with %'s is that they require both a numerator and a denominator.

Credit Card debt accumulation dropped suddenly when credit dried up and people defaulted etc. Now that they are issuing debt again the news article has (stupidly) focused in solely on the change from Q2-2009 to Q2-2010 to Q2-2011. Showing a 10 year pattern would be more informational.

Journalism majors trying to make analytical observations like this often winds up looking like a drunken fat man trying to break dance.

P.S. This is the same journalistic insight shown when they have articles talking about how company ABC had a 125% increase in profits!!! Which tells you the year before the probably had low profits.

Innumeracy ftl.

For the guy repping me....analytics of past events <> predictions of futre events. If I were always right I wouldn't still be working.
re: gold I underestimated just how much money would continue to flow into gold speculation vs. the reality of production levels.

Last edited by Mathguy; 09-15-2011 at 12:35 PM..
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Old 09-15-2011, 12:39 PM
 
78,408 posts, read 60,593,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
A quote from Business News, Stock Quotes, Investment Advice - DailyFinance states… “Habits are hard to break: Just when you think you're firmly in control, you backslide again. Such may be the case with Americans debt addiction”.

“According to CardHub.com's, Q2 2011 Credit Card Debt Study, U.S. consumers accumulated a staggering $18.4 billion in credit card debt in the second quarter -- 66% more than they accumulated in the same quarter a year ago, and 368% more than in the second quarter of 2009. Based on the study, Americans will end 2011with around $54 billion more in credit card debt than they began the year with”.

Now my question is, do you think this rise in credit card debt is due to an increase in economic confidence, or is it a sign that people now need credit to survive?
This article more succintly makes my point.....a 368% increase from Q2 2009? Wow, that's a lot of increase....oh wait....

Consumer credit card debt shrinks further in June
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post

Journalism majors trying to make analytical observations like this often winds up looking like a drunken fat man trying to break dance.

.
Often, but not always. Media outlets have political agendas, and journalism majors are often assigned to make "analytical observations" that fit in with the prevailing slant of their paper. If I owned a paper, I wouldn't let interns randomly publish misrepresentations of reality, unless I thougt they were misrepresentations that would benefit my portfolio.

The gullible public so ardently embraces the performances of drunken fat break dancers, why would the media not use them to solidify their power? The US media is probably the most powerful cartel in the history of the world, and I doubt if it is just staggering ardound at random.
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Old 09-15-2011, 10:21 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,856,573 times
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I think it woud be much more useful if they looked at total debt.Often such articles give a false impression. unless the governamnt is lying total debt has fallen and svaings is highest since the 80's. One could look at a snap shot of credit card or any debt at a point and get the wrong impression. Even the use of crdit cards can avry. For instance if I charge gas on one card I get 5% back and on another I get 10 cents offf as gallon.Which can show as more private debt at a certain point.But by the twelth of the next month it back to zero except for new purchases.If you look at what I spend thru credit card a year its pretty high but I pay no interest and have the money to cover it like cash.
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Old 09-16-2011, 09:01 AM
 
78,408 posts, read 60,593,823 times
Reputation: 49691
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Often, but not always. Media outlets have political agendas, and journalism majors are often assigned to make "analytical observations" that fit in with the prevailing slant of their paper. If I owned a paper, I wouldn't let interns randomly publish misrepresentations of reality, unless I thougt they were misrepresentations that would benefit my portfolio.

The gullible public so ardently embraces the performances of drunken fat break dancers, why would the media not use them to solidify their power? The US media is probably the most powerful cartel in the history of the world, and I doubt if it is just staggering ardound at random.
Around here the local paper is actually an anti-business rag. They printed an "analysis" by an insurance "expert" (paid by the trial lawyers association) showing that medical malpractice costs were not bad in the state, tort reform wasn't needed and that it was the insurance companies gouging that was the problem. The analysis was so laughably bad that actuarial and regulatory (state insurance commissioners) unanimously rejected it...but the local paper never mentioned any of that.

His methodology was akin to saying that people are doing great in the US because todays wages would have bought tons of goods and services back during the Clinton administration so there is no problem with cost of living today.
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Old 09-16-2011, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,531 posts, read 24,698,072 times
Reputation: 9980
I remember when the interest rates were legally limited to 10% and the interest was tax deductable. The so called Financial Reform, without a Usuary limit was a waste.
Imagine if all the money paid to banks every month as interest were available for ondividuals to buy products and stimulate the economy
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