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I find this discussion interesting as well. Is it therefore safe to say that some areas have absolutely no upper class people at all, because the highest paid people in that area only make $500k per year? Or are the people who make $500k per year considered that area's upper class and all the other numbers shift appropriately?
For example, in my area, incomes are lower, but so are costs of living. Hubby and I only make around $60-65k per year, and I would put us on the high end of middle class, but according to your numbers, we are only barely at the bottom end of middle class.
I tend to look at class status as more of a "how financially secure are you" issue. Upper class don't have to work if they don't want to, and can spend whatever they want at the drop of a hat. Lower class live paycheck to paycheck. Middle class are, of course, in between, not living paycheck to paycheck, but having to pay attention to their finances and budget to get the things they want.
I find this discussion interesting as well. Is it therefore safe to say that some areas have absolutely no upper class people at all, because the highest paid people in that area only make $500k per year? Or are the people who make $500k per year considered that area's upper class and all the other numbers shift appropriately?
For example, in my area, incomes are lower, but so are costs of living. Hubby and I only make around $60-65k per year, and I would put us on the high end of middle class, but according to your numbers, we are only barely at the bottom end of middle class.
I tend to look at class status as more of a "how financially secure are you" issue. Upper class don't have to work if they don't want to, and can spend whatever they want at the drop of a hat. Lower class live paycheck to paycheck. Middle class are, of course, in between, not living paycheck to paycheck, but having to pay attention to their finances and budget to get the things they want.
I think you are working class, not middle class. Middle class are the doctors that the working class go to. A great number of people think they are middle class, but only by some politicians definition.
I think class is more net worth than income. The rich have vast differences in income from year to year.
I think you are working class, not middle class. Middle class are the doctors that the working class go to. A great number of people think they are middle class, but only by some politicians definition.
Please explain why and how you define working class, and middle class.
There are also striae of middle class: upper middle and lower middle.
I find this discussion interesting as well. Is it therefore safe to say that some areas have absolutely no upper class people at all, because the highest paid people in that area only make $500k per year? Or are the people who make $500k per year considered that area's upper class and all the other numbers shift appropriately?
For example, in my area, incomes are lower, but so are costs of living. Hubby and I only make around $60-65k per year, and I would put us on the high end of middle class, but according to your numbers, we are only barely at the bottom end of middle class.
I tend to look at class status as more of a "how financially secure are you" issue. Upper class don't have to work if they don't want to, and can spend whatever they want at the drop of a hat. Lower class live paycheck to paycheck. Middle class are, of course, in between, not living paycheck to paycheck, but having to pay attention to their finances and budget to get the things they want.
The house I used as an example is a upper middle class house. It would be so in any metropolitan area in the U.S.. Although your taxes and groceries maybe slightly lower, many things are not. Otherwise, the costs of petrol, automobiles, vacations to Disney World, most major retailers, restaurants, college tuition etc.. are the same anywhere you go. It's just that most of the higher cost areas are more segregated, thus making lower cost areas and housing no-go for the middle class.
The house I used as an example is a upper middle class house. It would be so in any metropolitan area in the U.S.. Although your taxes and groceries maybe slightly lower, many things are not. Otherwise, the costs of petrol, automobiles, vacations to Disney World, most major retailers, restaurants, college tuition etc.. are the same anywhere you go. It's just that most of the higher cost areas are more segregated, thus making lower cost areas and housing no-go for the middle class.
As someone who has been in the real estate field for 10 years, I can tell you that that house, with those finishes, on 3 acres is HIGH upper-middle and really over into low-upper class for my area.
I grew up in a 6000 square foot 6 bedroom home with a pool, volleyball court, small basketball court, and with equally nice finishes, and we were in one of the nicer neighborhoods in town. Regardless of politicians definitions, we were firmly in the low-upper class range, not middle class, despite the fact that my parents have worked all their lives, and not as doctors or lawyers, and despite the fact that I don't think they've ever made over $500k in a single year before.
Class in America isn't about money, it's attitude/world view (with some parameters for money). I learned this from Paul Fussell's painfully hilarious and spot-on little book, "Class." Also, further back, was Vance Packard's "The Status Seekers."
I'm enough of a snob from the working class to know New Money when I see it. ;>
The previous poster's point about location I think is a key one. Living in NYC on 300K a year is not the same as living in Kansas City on 300K a year.
Very true. In 2008 we relocated from the DC area to Charlotte, NC and maintained our same salaries with our respective companies. Our money buys a lot more and goes a lot further here in Charlotte than it did in the DC metro area.
Class in America isn't about money, it's attitude/world view (with some parameters for money). I learned this from Paul Fussell's painfully hilarious and spot-on little book, "Class." Also, further back, was Vance Packard's "The Status Seekers."
I'm enough of a snob from the working class to know New Money when I see it. ;>
So true. Some of the kids I grew up with came from families with amazing amounts of money, but you would never know. The family across the street from us lived in a 4 bedroom brick colonial just like we did, their kids went to private school and they had a few (extended) family vacation homes that they had use of but nothing really different than most of the neighborhood. At some point the husband confided in my father that he had inherited 10mil on his 21st birthday (in the 60s). But that was "family money" and "you never touch the principal." The husband is now CEO of one of the largest hotel chains in the world...his 35yr old son just bought a 250K house in Texas with his wife, he too inherited many million on his 21st birthday. He's thrilled because the house has a pool. What you BUY doesn't necessary reflect what you HAVE.
The house I used as an example is a upper middle class house. It would be so in any metropolitan area in the U.S.. Although your taxes and groceries maybe slightly lower, many things are not. Otherwise, the costs of petrol, automobiles, vacations to Disney World, most major retailers, restaurants, college tuition etc.. are the same anywhere you go. It's just that most of the higher cost areas are more segregated, thus making lower cost areas and housing no-go for the middle class.
I'd say that house is very high in the upper middle class, or possibly lower upper class.
In Texas, I'd define upper-middle class houses to be in this range: $200,000 - $400,000.
...Although I guarantee you there are some "not-so-smart" upper middle class people living in $500,000 - $700,000 houses here.
Upper class here probably lives in $800,000 - $3+ million dollar homes.
So true. Some of the kids I grew up with came from families with amazing amounts of money, but you would never know. The family across the street from us lived in a 4 bedroom brick colonial just like we did, their kids went to private school and they had a few (extended) family vacation homes that they had use of but nothing really different than most of the neighborhood. At some point the husband confided in my father that he had inherited 10mil on his 21st birthday (in the 60s). But that was "family money" and "you never touch the principal." The husband is now CEO of one of the largest hotel chains in the world...his 35yr old son just bought a 250K house in Texas with his wife, he too inherited many million on his 21st birthday. He's thrilled because the house has a pool. What you BUY doesn't necessary reflect what you HAVE.
That was my grandfather's philosophy. He never touched the principle of his inheritance and rarely ever touched the interest either to the point you would not know he had it.
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