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If you (a) have a middle class job with generous (untaxed) fringe benefits and (b) own your home, you've got middle class government benefits right there.
If you own your own home, no mortgage, no kids, you in effect pay taxes that benefit others, not you.
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Middle class families earning $50K-$75K often pay lower effective federal tax rates than burger flippers.
Not sure how you figure the above......Most folks in "burger flipper" jobs as you put it pay ZERO federal income taxes, the more kids the better. In fact in many cases they get money back from the Fed that they never paid in to start with. Also what about all the additional UNTAXED benefits they receive?
Like other people said, I don't think anyone can just quit their job and hop on Section 8. The waiting list has been closed in my county since 2009(!), so good luck there. Medicaid is only available to children and pregnant women in most states. The minute you make more than $100 a month or whatever it is extremely low amount it is, all adults who aren't pregnant get kicked off. That will change in 2014, but then again, most people will be eligible for government subsidies to buy health insurance up to 400% of poverty line, which is around $92k for a family of four. TANF has a lifetime cap of 5 years. WIC is only up to age 5. Pell grants have a 12 semester cap. Daycare subsidies were cut back in my state last year.
Food stamps, CHIP, and taxes are where the advantages are at because of the ease of getting them and the long term ability to collect. Otherwise, eh, not that great to be poor either.
my sister said that she is having trouble paying the bills and she makes 60,000 a year so shes middle class i was wondering about the lower class of like 20 or 30,000 a year how can they afford everything?(mortgage,tv,phone, internet,car bill,gas,insurance,clothes,food,electirc or gas heating air condtion,dental bills, etc.)?
If you are smart everything is downsized to live within that budget,
Mortgage? you maybe renting or living in very cheap housing,like a double wide.
TV"? it will be an older model used of course with the most basic of cable TV.
Phone? Very cheap model with the lowest of monthly packages
Internet? again the lowest of packages
Car? used with economy playing a big role,no payments as you'll buy cash.
Insurances? you may have to forego some coverage to keep costs down.
Clothes? Goodwill
Food? coupns,thrift stores,be aware of sales
Heating?Keep temps around 65
AC? unless you live in the extreme south its a luxury you can live without.
Dental? find a local teaching hospital that will do it for free or reduced cost..
Credit cards? you cant afford em.
Granted the more you make the more freedom you have to spend but if you are down below $30K most of these suggestions are going to apply.
If your sister is having problems with $60K she's living too large for her income and will have to cut back somewhere..
if you don't have kids 30k a year should be enough.
Not always in cities like NYC and San Fran that would be hard.
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Originally Posted by 601halfdozen0theother
It equals out, though! Lower wages BUY more in an area with low cost of living, especially when it comes to housing. That's an absolute fact that I've experienced personally.
And if people were truly sincere about wanting to improve their standard of living they would be flexible about what kind of work they do, and would adapt to regional employment needs.
But I think most people would rather complain than actually take steps to improve their lives.
Seriously, people, if you can't make it financially where you are, do some research, apply some logic, then MOVE!!!
I live in nyc single with no kids. If I find it difficult to raise a family on my income then I will definitely leave.
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Originally Posted by gritsmassboy
new york city has a lot of jobs but if you make a lot you can't show off with a nice car or house which sucks. idk why people like it there small businesses must pay a **** load for rent.
They sure do.
I guess the poor live with families/roommates, take public transportation.
btw I don't consider 30k poor. Is it rich? Of course not. It's interesting to hear people's views on money.
I would think a better question would be how do the rich do it? I prefer to belong to that group anyway. Not sure anyone aspires to be part of the working poor. That being said;
1. At any income you live within your means.
2. At any income you pay a percentage of your income to yourself first before any bills are paid.
3. You find resources that can help you make it at the standard that you want to live. Rent out a room or the garage if you have to. Get a second job or start a business of your own.
4. Change your tax structure if you go from $60K to $30K. This is the time to make sure those tax dollars go to you during the year and not in a lump sum during tax season.
5. You plan ahead at any income and have a food supply, money supply or what have you for at least 6 months and a year if you can do it.
I did say I can see where it gives pause because a person earning 4 times (60k) doesn't realize a fourfold increase in their standard of living over the person making 15k and benefiting from multiple assistance programs.
Please take a deep breath...
A classic example would be two homes side by side, each family has 2 children and they attend the same school.. one family has Section 8 housing and the other is paying rent.
The one with Section 8 will pay no more than approximately 1/3 for shelter and utilities... which in my city equals about $300 a month for the rent portion.
The one renting without assistance is paying $1,500 a month... FIVE times more for the exact same "Equivalent" housing.
So you are absolutely correct... it is not equivalent because one family is paying 5 times more for the same goods and services another is getting for 1/5 the cost... both have the same housing, schools and community... the one on Section 8 is getting a $14,400 a year benefit courtesy of the taxpayers.
Added to that, if the 60k family looses their income... in all probability they will loose the home they rent.
If the 15k family income declines... it has zero impact on the ability to stay in the home... Housing will adjust the family's share downward.
This is how it works and I can easily understand why the 60k family has reason to question it.
No one is demonizing anyone and to say that shows a lack of understanding or perhaps guilt.
I managed a home rented to a women with children on Section 8... she drove a bus part time and made about 20k.
She was offered full time, split shift at 55k a year... it would also mean loosing all her benefits like Section 8, Alameda Alliance Health Care, Discounted Utilities, School Lunch, etc...
Can you guess which option she choose?
She decided the risk was too great to go it alone... she turned down the 55k job so she could be home with her kids after school and keep her housing, medical, etc...
Look, I can't explain away or entertain your fantasy thoughts and fictional scenarios ok.
There is no basis to the idea that someone getting 14,500 is living as well in the US as someone making 60,000. Someone's fantasy perception that they aren't living 4 times better is so worthless that I don't know why it would be of any importance to anyone but the sick of mind.
The fact that you or anyone else wants to convince yourself of these fantasies is about you or them.
I'll say it again, any person who thinks its better in any way to be a single mom with 2 children making 14,500 is a damn fool and needs to go live that life and report back to us about how great it is.
If not then they know damn well its far better to be making income of 60,000 and they know whats up.
And then you have people that receive none of the above... and still pay plenty in taxes
BS, the number of people who receive nothing from the government is very, very, very, very, very, very small.
The fact of the matter is, you have middle class Americans living off the government from womb to tomb play acting that they don't get anything from the government.
Like I said, I can't entertain or explain away someone's fantasy beliefs about the world.
But the telltale sign that it bs is that no one and I do mean no one if given a chance is going to attempt to live on 14,500 if they are making 60,000. You can take that to the bank. There is no equivalence in their lifestyles and no one in the real world believes that.
Only sick in the head people on the internet who want to demonize poor people and who want to play the self righteous victim role would even entertain such crap.
Oh,well,I have lived that life,thank you very much.
I grew up with a mom on welfare.
I also was poor up until I finished nursing school,at 22.
I had Medicaid,food stamps,and the dollar a day car insurance.
But I wanted to live a better life,or so I thought it was.
Back then ,I could go to the Doctor at any time without needing a copay.
ER was free(no copays anyway)
Food stamps,well I had food.
I didn't have Section 8 or other housing assistance though. Sometimes we did get assistance with our bills.
The mother making $14,000 with 2 kids in your scenerio,why can't she go back to school?
Why can't she work 2 jobs?
Is she working? If she is part time,why can't she go full time?
Look, I don't care about your life or what you think of someone else's choices.
This is about the sick fantasy that someone making 14,500 and is a single mom is living a better life than a family making 60,000.
All I say is go live that life and tell us which one is better. There is no doubt in any sane person's mind which one is better and it is evil and sick to spread a lie that somehow single moms getting by on 14,500 are living as well or getting as much from the government as families making 60,000.
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