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Old 01-20-2013, 05:48 PM
 
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I don't know where exactly to put this - history? general economics? I'm putting it in personal finance, and the mod can move it if necessary.

Several years ago I did an oral history project in which I interviewed many people who were adults during the Great Depression of 1930 - 1938. Many of them were able to survive by doing things that now would be at the very least code violations, if not completely illegal.

For example, one woman travelled by streetcar to the nearby city (about 8 miles away) and bought canned goods and other "dry goods" there, then sold those items to neighbors out of her own house at a slightly higher price.

Someone couldn't do this now because 1) having a business in their home that involved people coming and going to and from the location would be a code violation in most neighborhoods in most towns. 2) selling anything without a business license would be a code violation. 3) selling without paying sales tax is illegal.

Another example is women who took in others and rented out rooms to them, and who also cooked lunches for workingmen to take to work with them. Renting rooms to unrelated people would be a code violation except in specific locations in most communities now. And you can't sell food that isn't cooked in a kitchen certified by the health department.

There were many who raised chickens, and kept a milk cow, or a goat or two in their yard in town. In most places this is at the very least a code violation, if not illegal at a higher level.

As for the men, they killed squirrels, coons and possum in town as one way to feed their family. In most places it's now illegal to hunt in-town except for some specific species in some specific seasons.

And the kids worked at a variety of jobs at fairly young ages for extra cash to help out their families. Grocery delivery boys could start work at 10, and even younger children earned a little by herding the milk cows to the outskirts of town to graze, then herding them back again.

I'm sure there are lots of other examples.

I know that codes and taxes were established for a variety of reasons: to keep the peace between neighbors, to ensure that food is healthy, to gain revenue for municipalities, to ensure that children are safe and educated. But it does seem as though we are prevented from doing some simple things that would enable us to have a little more cash and/or food.

I suppose I'm thinking about this because: I live in a very small town and know the mayor well. I was joking with him one day that I'm going to open a fortune telling business out of my house, and he took me seriously and told me it would be a zoning violation - my neighborhood isn't zoned for businesses. I laughed, and explained that I was joking, but then got to thinking about it. Why can't I do something like that if I want to earn some extra money?

And yes, there are modern ways to earn via internet sales and webcam stuff (let's not bother to introduce that discussion). Does that take the place of not being able to rent a room to an unrelated person if my neighborhood isn't zoned for it? Or not being able to have a milk-cow in my backyard?

Sorry so long and rambling!
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:54 PM
 
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Well, yes and no...selling food out of your house like the first woman--Ebay anyone????

Renting rooms, that would be legal here and everywhere we have lived. I know of one town in our state where you need a "permit" to do so though.

A lot of places allow chickens but not cows, etc. Even back in the Great Depression, livestock was not allowed in most cities. The "rural" areas were closer to the city core back then, fewer people.

Hunting in town was not legal in most places during the great depression either--many trapped or used BB Guns but that didn't make it legal. Same goes as the livestock, they could walk 6 blocks or a mile and be in the "country" and hunt there.

Child labor laws are a good thing. Kids as young as 10 can mow lawns, etc. without it being illegal.

If our society crumbled to the point of the huge unemployment rates seen in the G.D., many of these things, while maybe illegal, would be overlooked, just as they were back then.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:06 PM
 
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Farrier. Since most people drive cars now, a farrier's services(horseshoes) are rarely needed.

Milkmen. There is no need for milkmen with improved pasteurization, giant refrigerated trucks and improved transportation. Milk can sit on store shelves longer. It does not need to go straight to the consumer from the farm.

Pinsetter. In the old days, you didn't have machines that automatically set the pins in bowling alleys. Pinsetter would sit at the end of the alley. They would physically reset the pins after each frame.

Typesetter. People used to manually put the letters together to create each printed page. There are still a few people making a living as a typesetter, but it's uncommon.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:03 PM
 
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But what about ways that you can make money today that weren't possible 80 years ago? Web design anyone? Doesn't it balance itself out?
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Flippin AR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmills View Post
But what about ways that you can make money today that weren't possible 80 years ago? Web design anyone? Doesn't it balance itself out?
No, it doesn't balance out. Things have been getting drastically worse since probably the early 1970s, when wages reached their max and started falling. Workers had been in demand, and valued, as a result of WWII and the resulting manufacturing economy that spawned countless supporting industries.

When I was young any young woman could be a secretary, and any young man willing to work could find a business willing to pay a starting wage. Any kid could earn money mowing lawns, doing a newspaper route, helping neighbors around the house with cleaning and errands. I contemplated a career in writing (newspapers, magazines, TV) when in college, and you could actually earn a living that way.

The tides turned drastically against labor as the mass of the Baby Boom filled all the available jobs at decent wages in the "peak" economy, and sat there for decades, making no room for the people coming behind them. The early Baby Boomers saw quick upward mobility in their careers--but if you were born at the tail end of the Baby Boom, say 1960 or later, you basically hit a brick wall. Businesses in general stopped expanding as the economy abandoned productive manufacturing and turned more and more to financial scams and game-playing, and this stopped the promotion machine that had given our parents pensions and early retirements and nice vacation houses.

If you graduated college in 1965 and began your career, overall you probably worked half as hard, and did twice as well, as those born just 15 years later. That's just the way it was--graduate and be reliable in an expanding economy and you'll move up quickly; graduate in a contracting one and you'll find yourself working more and more hours just to not be laid off.

Today's "opportunities," thanks to a massively burdensome government that regulates and taxes any realistic business out of existence (leaving only the slave-labor Big Businesses), are basically anecdotal. Web design? Seriously? It can be done almost for free overseas if you are a larger business, or can be done by virtually any computer-literate kid today? Do you really think you can earn enough advertising revenue, or get enough new business owners (which are as common as unicorns) to hire you?

I have many young relatives who would have had guaranteed career success in previous generations (bright, personable, amiable, hard-working), who are now limping along with worthless college degrees and no prospects. Their parents basically will support them, and their children, until the money and credit runs out.

Sure there are a few lottery-type jobs (like the proverbial financial game-players) that get lots of press and make liberals think the nation has a future. But overall? I don't see any light at the end of this tunnel. Sometimes the tunnel just goes straight down into the earth, and you won't see daylight until you turn around and retrace your steps back to where you started (i.e. America BEFORE federalism destroyed it).
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:36 PM
 
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You are looking at it wrong--the employment situation after WWII was a bubble because of the war. It was not normal. I think you are looking back through rose colored glasses because there were sure recessions in the 70's too.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:14 PM
 
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The economy was always booming in the old days. The unemployment rate was actually worse for the baby boomers in the 70's and 80's. It was particularly bad in Houston, where the oil bust was felt the most.


Generation X and Y have a lower peak unemployment and average unemployment rate in the 90's and 00's. Keep in mind that the 70's and 80's had much fewer women in the workforce. If you look at the employment to population ratio, the employment levels were actually worse in the 70's and 80's.



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Old 01-20-2013, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Liminal Space
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OP, "not possible today" is far too strong a term for the jobs you describe. All of those things are still done by many people in this country to earn money, whether legal or not. In other countries these things are commonplace.

Quote:
For example, one woman travelled by streetcar to the nearby city (about 8 miles away) and bought canned goods and other "dry goods" there, then sold those items to neighbors out of her own house at a slightly higher price.
This is basically the same as people who buy things at garage sales & junk shops and then sell them on Ebay. It is the process of realizing that something has a higher value in one market context than another, and taking advantage of that. The internet has opened up massive fields of opportunity in this area.

Quote:
Another example is women who took in others and rented out rooms to them,
https://www.airbnb.com/

Quote:
There were many who raised chickens, and kept a milk cow, or a goat or two in their yard in town. In most places this is at the very least a code violation, if not illegal at a higher level.
There is a pretty lively movement to re-legalize backyard chickens in many progressive cities across the country, like Portland and Sacramento.

Quote:
As for the men, they killed squirrels, coons and possum in town as one way to feed their family. In most places it's now illegal to hunt in-town except for some specific species in some specific seasons.
Nonetheless people still do it.

Quote:
And the kids worked at a variety of jobs at fairly young ages for extra cash to help out their families.
Ditto.

Again, you seem to be confusing "not legal" with "not possible."
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bentobox34 View Post
Again, you seem to be confusing "not legal" with "not possible."
Ummm, aren't we ALL supposed to believe that "not legal" is "not possible"?

That's kind of my point.
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:39 PM
 
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Many kids still work, especially in family businesses. Many people hire their kids at lower wages than a regular employee and they get their kids get a tax break. I was stuffing billing invoices and marketing flyers in envelopes, before I even turned 10 for my father's business. I wasn't sacking groceries, but it was work.
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