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We may have positive movement. Dadinlaw - who was the first to call us in a cry for help when he knew they needed assisted living (when MIL was resisting ).... and who has told my spouse he wants him to take over the billpaying duties - yesterday called the attorney who drew up the original trust - and asked him what to do.
The attorney didn't know what he was talking about (because the attorney was clueless to the interfamily dynamics - saying everything would be OK - then collected $900 for his "work") - Dadinlaw has a serious speech impediment since his stroke and chemo for Lymphoma and he doesn't hear well - but he is a smart man. He doesn't wear the pants - but he may make a decision and ask his son to help him follow through. Whether or not he convinces MIL - is yet to be seen.
He may be ready for an addendum or restating the original trust - outlining that my spouse will take over the billpaying and fiduciary duties of Power of Attorney - deleting his sister from that responsibility.
Yours sounds like a difficult situation with no obvious or easy resolution. Unfortunately, elderly money management and inheritance issues often tear families apart. Your in-laws should be commended for still managing their own affairs into their 90's, even though it sounds like they need some help.
A couple of objective questions regarding motives come to mind and have a bearing on this situation: Do they have a significant estate and are you concerned that resources that might ultimately be yours are being squandered or siphoned-off by a 'shiftless' daughter ... OR that they may outlive their resources and that you could be held financially responsible?
You should not lose sight of the fact that they are living their own lives and spending their own money as they see fit. While they may be old and perhaps not making the wise financial decisions (or the same ones you would make), it's still their life and money. Your post also mentions "control," "wearing the pants" and "taking legal action" enough times to suggest that this is as much an issue ... as 'properly managed spending.' This begs the question, 'Is your concern with their control of their money, or with your control of their money?' --- Finally, they may have a 'blind spot' regarding their daughter, but, after all these years, it's probably not as 'blind' as you imagine.
I realize that these are difficult and perhaps irrelevant questions in your situation, but, if so, that shouldn't matter; and, if not, they may provide you with some good insights by which to decide the best course of action.
They do need help. My spouse has unraveled a number of bills that my MIL has been "confused" over and overpaid. This with regards to their long term care insurance coverage and the monthly bill for assisted living. We have yet to see what bills she has from her 4 hospitalizations for high blood pressure. My spouse has also stopped payment on a wheelchair they never got....and were being billed for - monthly. And then there's the medicare coverage. If the ALC bills are confusing her - the maize of insurance processing for her hospitalizations will certainly do the same. We simply do not want her to give her money away if it's not warranted. We are concerned they would never see a scam coming - even if it was cloaked in diamonds. They have been scammed before. And to this day will not admit they were hoodwinked into buying something they didn't need. They have long lost the capacity to see bull**** when presented with it.
They do have a significant estate - however, in the manner to which they want to live the rest of their lives - there will be no money left in no time. We are well aware - that before this is over their living expenses could exceed $20K a month.
The "shiftless daughter" would do everything in her power to squander their funds. She is unaware of how much the bills for their living situation are costing. Husband helped the folks when the contract for ALC was signed. He is completely knowledgeable.
Our objective is to never let her have any control over their funds. Ever. There would never be any transparency nor accounting. Did I mention she has stolen from family members before?
If you are asking if we are greedy? Just come out and ask it.
One of the difficult and sad parts about growing old is just when you should be able to relax a little you have to deal with all the bills and insurance maize. And all the illnesses and medical emergencies. We've had experience with parents paying the "this is not a bill" statement. And then paying the bill as well.
I was just going to ask if you MIL is able to get her meds right...and then you said she was hospitalized for high blood pressure. That's a significant indicator of not being able to take care of oneself. And that may be a reason your FIL is sort of pursuing alternatives.
Increasing highs and lows can actually go on a while. But sooner or later, and given their advanced ages, it could be your MIL will suddenly have a stroke, all the more so if she continues to get her bp meds wrong. In fact she may have already had mini strokes and that is why your FIL has gotten pro active. I hate to remind one of this but often in seniors over 85, the stroke is not the more familiar one of blockage and quickly trying to dissolve the blockage. Statistics indicate that over 85 a stroke is more likely to be hemorrhagic. Veins get old and sort of tear. So no blockage to undo. Rather bleeding to find and stop. And in the meantime the person is getting more and more effected. (fyi, even today when there are more and more elderly not all emts are prepared for this and the symptoms don't necessarily follow those of the more common stroke. For example, a person can smile, talk and raise her hands, but has lost control from the waste down and cannot move her legs at all. It can start at the feet and work its way up doing its damage. All the scarier when you have an emergency care person who is trying to figure out what in the world this is)
Another thing your MIL may be experiencing is sundowning. It can go from restlessness and some confusion to progress to great agitation, movement, drive to go through papers and drawers. Yelling, including at loved ones, heightened fears, startling are consistent with this. It's called sundowning because it's more common when a person is more tired, generally at the end of the day. But it can come on a different daily cycle, according to the individual. It can escalate and increase. It doesn't go away although meds can help. It is associated with dementia. This may be the reason for the yelling at your son. It may also have increased to such a level...and the 'good' times therefore more noticeable...that your FIL sees the need to be proactive.
See what you can do to have your MIL's ability to sign anything stopped. I have known unscrupulous people who will swoop in before such declaration...and some even smart enough to watch for these symptoms knowing its not good news...and get the elderly individual to sign away some things; or come for a visit and suddenly all the jewelry is gone...or, more important to some, the memories, the inexpensive but significant things one wanted for a grandchild, etc.
Realize that you seem to have symptoms presenting themselves that could indicate a diagnosis. Of course, you are there on the scene and we're only reading about it all.
There are honorable attorneys who specialize in elder care.
There are different costs and insurance coverages involved in caring for a person in the different way in which your MIL may soon need. Assisted Living will do its best to keep a couple and even an individual in Assisted Living. But staff is trained to notice things like sundowning..the yelling has likely been heard by others. Perhaps your FIL is aware others have noticed, perhaps someone even spoke with him about it.
Try to take some action before it's harder to do so. At this stage its really tough. It may be at some point your MIL will mellow for a moment in time to facilitate this. There are different hoops to jump through if its done later but one can only do what one can do.
They ARE in assisted living. The BP problems started when she was CERTAIN her doctor had prescribed certain times (he changed the dosage and times) - and the staff insisted on doing what the doctor ordered. She screamed at them. My spouse had to get involved to clarify as he is medical POA.
I wouldn't be surprised if she has experienced the kind of strokes you identified. And sundowning for certain. But my FIL is also in bad shape... and he cannot convince her of anything.
The last we heard - they were consulting with staff on finding someone to do their bills. We sent them a letter outlining the need to do this NOW before they can't. They also called a lawyer - and paid him $200 to talk to him in their unit - the lawyer they once said was a crook - who we employed to move their trust when an unscrupulous broker scammed them into turning it over to his BROTHER. Yes, you read that right.
See what you can do to have your MIL's ability to sign anything stopped
Right now we are taking this one day at a time. Dadinlaw is on our side - but she is stronger than he.
Sorry for all the trouble you're having. It's hard enough dealing with elderly parents' needs but to have issues within the family makes it even more difficult. You do seem like you're prepared and able to handle what you need to do.
They ARE in assisted living.
I don't know if you understood that I know they're in assisted living but the time may come when your MIL needs more watching, more meds, perhaps memory care. Some couples seem to grasp this and some, while sad about it, are in a way almost prepared for it. It's nice when the assisted living side covers several steps so that couples can age together there. And then it's nice if memory care is just across the court for frequent visits.
Update - spouse spoke to his folks today. They said they asked at the "front desk" for the name of anyone who can do their bills for them - but we are thinking they are either lying or the front desk sees it as a conflict of interest to give them that kind of advice. They are not following up - I suspect they don't know how - and they won't ask for help.
This is so lame.
We have gone online and found the state list of certified fiduciaries in their area. We will print out the list - and give to their CPA, who they are seeing in a week or so to do their taxes. Yes, they didn't have it together to do them before the deadline and had to file for an extension. Their taxes are SIMPLE.
We will give the list to their CPA and ask him for references as well and have him not tell them we gave him the list (of course that would fall under my MILs idea of "interfering".... but we do not care.)
If they don't ask for a reference - he will prompt the discussion.
This is just stupid. There's got to be a cognitive problem along with the stubbornness.
I may have missed it, but is your MIL assessed periodically to see what her memory function is?
Not sure if your assisted living facility has a dementia ward, but it's possible that may be in her near future.
You can have her declared incompetent, and legally take over their decision making and financial business.
MIL's physician is a run of the mill internist. They change doctors as often as they change their bedding. We get used to talking to one (spouse is medical POA for them only when they decline) - and she changes to another. She refuses to believe what they tell her - even if she is being assessed. The assisted living center she is in - does not have a skilled nursing facility or a memory care center - it's more of an assisted living "wing" in an independent living center.
We will have to find one if her or dadinlaw's health declines. They are determined to stay together to the end... we know things won't happen the way they want.
I foresee a trainwreck down the road... We have not secured an elder attorney for that time - but we have been talking to a number of them.
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