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Apparently, the bottom 25% have income listed as between zero and $10,800. Now, i don't know about you, but where I come from annual income of $10,800 doesn't give one much room to invest.
The next quartile only goes up to annual income of $27,468.
I will also note that these are by individual, not by household. So it is entirely possible that at least some of these individuals are largely non-working spouses, who we wouldn't expect to have a bunch of assets saved up for retirement. It is likely that at least some of these individuals have spouses who have saved plenty for retirement. If the numbers were broken out by household rather than by individual it would give us a better picture…but then it wouldn’t give such a dramatic headline, would it.
Third, I can’t be certain because I’m unable to access the google doc currently, but I don’t know if the numbers are aggregations of all retirement accounts by individual, or a survey of retirement accounts. I know that if you looked only at my 401K balance you’d think I was woefully unprepared for retirement – but that would ignore a Roth IRA, a rollover IRA that has accumulated 401Ks from past jobs, and so on.
Upshot being, there’s a lot we’re not getting from these numbers.
As for "a culture of overconsumption", again, I bet there were people complaining about those fancy chariots people were riding in during the days of Rome.
Very well said. I have a DB retirement plan. My supplemental retirement funds, which are considerably more than $30,000, are in a 403b account not in a 401k, so these might or might count in this survey, but more importantly, the account is not going to be my main source of income in retirement. My pension is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzourah2006
Car debt is dumb is a values statement.
A car is something most people spend the most time in aside from their home and office. If you like nice cars and you can afford one go for it.
I'd rather pay 25k on a car over 5 years than take 5 5k vacations over that 5 year period(vacations are stressful to me).
Many may disagree with me.
My main point was it is not either you are living frugally and saving for retirement or you are living lavishly and not saving anything at all.
It is possible to enjoy some things and still save plenty.
QFT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer
The only people in America who cannot be expected to save for retirement are the homeless.
Everybody else who has a job can do so.
The federal minimum wage is $7.15 an hour. That's $286 a week, $14872 a year working 40 hours a week. Before taxes. Please explain how somebody who might clear $1000 a month can accumulate several thousand dollars in savings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdflk
It's simple: spending too much on material possessions and not SAVING.
It's not that complicated really.
The federal minimum wage is $7.15 an hour. That's $286 a week, $14872 a year working 40 hours a week. Before taxes. Please explain how somebody who might clear $1000 a month can accumulate several thousand dollars in savings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon
Are you serious? Look in the mirror.
What facts have you added to the table? I have mentioned facts and used links. You dodge and evade. Don't be fraudulent.
Here are questions that you run from:
-Do you honestly believe that America is that economically bad, that 3/4ths of Americans aged 50 to 65 can not save $30K total over their life while making good financial decisions?
-Do you honestly believe that we don't have a consumer culture, something that Occupy Wall Street argued?
-Do you honestly believe that wide swaths of society are not choosing to buy more than they need at the expense of saving?
-Do you think it would be too hard for 75% of Americans to average 11 cents a day invested from age 18 to 65? This would have gotten you over $30K assuming S&P with dividends reinvested. You just beat most Americans!!! What about a buck a day invested from age 25 to 65? This would have gotten you over $200K assuming S&P 500 with dividends reinvested again. You would be well ahead of the vast majority!!! What if you took $480 a year and continuously invested them in 5 year cds...reinvesting ones that came due for 30 years, 1984 to 2013...you would have more saved than most Americans near retirement with over $30K based on historic rates.
The federal minimum wage is $7.15 an hour. That's $286 a week, $14872 a year working 40 hours a week. Before taxes. Please explain how somebody who might clear $1000 a month can accumulate several thousand dollars in savings.
Where, exactly, would someone saving only between $3.08 and $3.41 a month accumulate his/her nest egg? Do you think a coffee can behind the sofa would be more secure than under the mattress? Banks charge exorbitant fees on small accounts (< $10,000) and 401k plans generally require minimum inputs in round numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric
Yes. The authors also have a background in finance. They should not be using average so loosely. The article is geared towards the college-educated. And they should not avoid using complex sentences. All those sentences are short. And that makes it painful to read. Loosers like me like longer sentences.
^^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by synchronicity
Ha!!!!*
Speaking of short sentences, at my old job I learned to write emails that had the important issue in the subject and in the first half of the first sentence. Why? Because I could never be sure that anyone would read an email much beyond that. Figured that out after writing things that had the important bit in the second paragraph and had a few responses where it was clear they never got that far.
*- Yes, I saw what you did there. Your comments about the sentences. They were good. You should write like that. Maybe you'd get a job with a magazine. And then you could write like that more.
The best posts in the thread!!! I couldn't rep you guys again, so consider it done here!
the answer is most folks who earn 15k a year with all the gimmees, tax credits and programs they can get they are NOT earning 15k a year. in fact they actually have have beaten most earning 30-40k in after tax dollars and in some cases approached 60k after all is gotten.
while not all benefits are available in all states and some states require you to have children for certain benefits the bottom line is for most 15k is not 15k.
Last edited by mathjak107; 10-02-2013 at 02:35 AM..
correct, that is a factor but it still does not change the fact that a 15k income can be far more after all the perks one is eligible for.
the example a poster gave was a 15k income , but that can be no different when all is said and done to a pretax 60k for someone who gets all perks.. hypothetically free cash flow may be very close after taxes..
anyone even qualifying for medicaid got a 16k advantage over me based on what i pay in health insurance alone.
someone earning 100k may save nothing if they have driven up expenses to consume it so what your cost of living is will be a huge variable in all cases.
And the fact is that even with your adjustments, that $15,000 income level that was being discussed still remains way below the cost of living where most Americans live, therefore income and cost of living being the reasons why those Americans are unable to save for retirement.
Last edited by bUU; 10-02-2013 at 04:08 AM..
Reason: I have to stop clicking View Post
who cares , what some ones cost of living is to variable to be used for a basis.
I only mentioned the income side so stop arguing about a parameter I never even mentioned.
the answer is most folks who earn 15k a year with all the gimmees, tax credits and programs they can get they are NOT earning 15k a year. in fact they actually have have beaten most earning 30-40k in after tax dollars and in some cases approached 60k after all is gotten.
while not all benefits are available in all states and some states require you to have children for certain benefits the bottom line is for most 15k is not 15k.
Your argument is irrelevant to mine since I was specifically addressing some posters who claimed that essentially anyone who didn't have lots of savings for retirement was a spendthrift. These posters ignored the fact that there are many people in the US who live in poverty even though they are working full time, and I wished to remind them of that.
FTR, most governmental aid does not come in the form of cash to the recipients to use however they want. Except for the EIC, pretty much all of the "benefits" go directly to the service providers/payees.
Also FTR, in order to receive nearly all of the benefits you listed there, except perhaps the EIC and maybe food stamps, a person cannot have assets valued at more than a certain amount, which would preclude people getting Medicaid and other forms of aid from having significant amounts in savings.
Your argument is irrelevant to mine since I was specifically addressing some posters who claimed that essentially anyone who didn't have lots of savings for retirement was a spendthrift. These posters ignored the fact that there are many people in the US who live in poverty even though they are working full time, and I wished to remind them of that.
Precisely. It isn't the individual's cost of living that matters, but rather the cost of living for the area where Americans live that matters, an amount that isn't related to a person's discretion but rather is a reflection of the cost of basics.
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